Discussion:
Declaration of Paternity
(too old to reply)
"Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
2005-01-24 16:43:38 UTC
Permalink
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father. Although being the father, he has
denied parentage so as not to pay maintenance. He has however made a
statement to the Police, admitting that he is the father of my son - we will
be persuing a Declaration on this basis.

Just wondered if anyone can give me any info as to what is involved and how
long this might take. Is a Court appearance necessary? With the Police
statement as evidence, would a DNA test still be required?

Any other info any of you can give please?

I would approach my Solicitor, but a 'phone call alone costs about £10!
Martin Davies
2005-01-24 18:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father. Although being the father, he has
denied parentage so as not to pay maintenance. He has however made a
statement to the Police, admitting that he is the father of my son - we will
be persuing a Declaration on this basis.
Just wondered if anyone can give me any info as to what is involved and how
long this might take. Is a Court appearance necessary? With the Police
statement as evidence, would a DNA test still be required?
Any other info any of you can give please?
I would approach my Solicitor, but a 'phone call alone costs about £10!
You don't need a solicitor except to hold you hand.

If he has denied paternity to the CSA when sent a CSA form then the CSA will
take care of applying to court for paternity to be sorted. It will involve a
DNA test.
If the CSA aren't involved, then you would need to apply to magistrates
court. Far more usual for the father to apply to court to prove paternity or
deny it.
The court will take a statement from you and either he agrees to DNA tests,
or the court order DNA tests. Then the court takes note of the results.
Be warned though, if you refuse to have tests the court takes account of
those results too and issues a declaration of non-parentage.

Martin <><
Zoe Brown
2005-01-24 18:59:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father.
You don't need to do this, the CSA will determin the paternity at the
fathers expence (if he is the father that is)
"Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
2005-01-24 21:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Thank you all.

It's a bit more complicated than that. For reasons of his own, my son's
father wants to deny paternity, or that he ever knew the child. He is a
wealthy, corrupt person and if the DNA test is left to him to supervise, he
will use fraudulence and collusion to make sure the test result is negative.
My reason for wanting to approach the Courts is to ensure that an
Independent tester and G.P is used to carry out a DNA test, if one becomes
necessary. So, with the Police statement from him in hand, would a DNA test
still be required? How long might I have to wait before the Courts will
hear the application?
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father. Although being the father, he has
denied parentage so as not to pay maintenance. He has however made a
statement to the Police, admitting that he is the father of my son - we
will be persuing a Declaration on this basis.
Just wondered if anyone can give me any info as to what is involved and
how long this might take. Is a Court appearance necessary? With the
Police statement as evidence, would a DNA test still be required?
Any other info any of you can give please?
I would approach my Solicitor, but a 'phone call alone costs about £10!
Martin Davies
2005-01-24 21:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Thank you all.
It's a bit more complicated than that. For reasons of his own, my son's
father wants to deny paternity, or that he ever knew the child. He is a
wealthy, corrupt person and if the DNA test is left to him to supervise, he
will use fraudulence and collusion to make sure the test result is negative.
My reason for wanting to approach the Courts is to ensure that an
Independent tester and G.P is used to carry out a DNA test, if one becomes
necessary. So, with the Police statement from him in hand, would a DNA test
still be required? How long might I have to wait before the Courts will
hear the application?
The police statement itself wouldn't be enough. What is believed one day can
turn out to be wrong.
DNA tests would prove.

He can go to his own GP to take the test, an independant company examines
the DNA from all 3 of you and gives the result.
It has been known for people to get round the DNA by sending someone else
for the test, though if its a relative that also can be checked. There was a
JP locally who got done for that.
I'm not sure that you can specify what GP or doctor he uses to give the
sample.


The court process where all parties are willing can take less than 3 months
overall, including the tests. Where one party tries to delay, can take up to
6 months.
If you start the court action, it may be up to you to pay for the tests.

Is the CSA involved in this?

Martin <><
Zoe Brown
2005-01-24 22:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Thank you all.
It's a bit more complicated than that. For reasons of his own, my son's
father wants to deny paternity, or that he ever knew the child.
Lots of men do - the CSA are used to it.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
He is a
wealthy, corrupt person and if the DNA test is left to him to supervise, he
will use fraudulence and collusion to make sure the test result is negative.
The CSA won't allow this, the test has to be done by an independant person.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
My reason for wanting to approach the Courts is to ensure that an
Independent tester and G.P is used to carry out a DNA test, if one becomes
necessary. So, with the Police statement from him in hand, would a DNA test
still be required? How long might I have to wait before the Courts will
hear the application?
You don't need to do this !!! the CSA will do a paternity test and they will
get a DNA test done and recorded !!!
Iona
2005-01-25 17:48:50 UTC
Permalink
I had a dna test done and had to take a photo with me for the Doc to sign as
a declaration thet it was me that had the test and not someone else.
Post by Zoe Brown
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Thank you all.
It's a bit more complicated than that. For reasons of his own, my son's
father wants to deny paternity, or that he ever knew the child.
Lots of men do - the CSA are used to it.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
He is a
wealthy, corrupt person and if the DNA test is left to him to supervise, he
will use fraudulence and collusion to make sure the test result is negative.
The CSA won't allow this, the test has to be done by an independant person.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
My reason for wanting to approach the Courts is to ensure that an
Independent tester and G.P is used to carry out a DNA test, if one becomes
necessary. So, with the Police statement from him in hand, would a DNA test
still be required? How long might I have to wait before the Courts will
hear the application?
You don't need to do this !!! the CSA will do a paternity test and they
will get a DNA test done and recorded !!!
"Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
2005-01-25 21:19:11 UTC
Permalink
O.K Dare I say this: it's actually the Doc whom I'm concerned about, as I'm
sure this person will form part of the collusion. I need to ensure that an
independent G.P is used, and I think the only way I can do this (possibly)
is to apply for a Declaration through the Courts. If I express my concerns
to the Courts, can they ensure that the NRP has to use an independent G.P?
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father. Although being the father, he has
denied parentage so as not to pay maintenance. He has however made a
statement to the Police, admitting that he is the father of my son - we
will be persuing a Declaration on this basis.
Just wondered if anyone can give me any info as to what is involved and
how long this might take. Is a Court appearance necessary? With the
Police statement as evidence, would a DNA test still be required?
Any other info any of you can give please?
I would approach my Solicitor, but a 'phone call alone costs about £10!
Martin Davies
2005-01-25 21:53:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
O.K Dare I say this: it's actually the Doc whom I'm concerned about, as I'm
sure this person will form part of the collusion. I need to ensure that an
independent G.P is used, and I think the only way I can do this (possibly)
is to apply for a Declaration through the Courts. If I express my concerns
to the Courts, can they ensure that the NRP has to use an independent G.P?
I'm not sure the court has the power to specify a doctor, or exclude one.


He can get it done at his own surgery or a hospital. I suppose if the result
wasn't what you expected but the details given were his, that you could take
the case to a higher court to get the declaration overturned.
Epensive though.

Oh, and if you think his doc colluded, you can complain to the body that
oversees doctors.

Martin <><
Iona
2005-01-26 19:23:59 UTC
Permalink
surely if the doctor knew the fella to be tested in anything other than a
professional way i.e go for a pint etc then that doc would not be able to do
the test?
Surely that would be wrong
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
O.K Dare I say this: it's actually the Doc whom I'm concerned about, as
I'm
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
sure this person will form part of the collusion. I need to ensure that
an
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
independent G.P is used, and I think the only way I can do this (possibly)
is to apply for a Declaration through the Courts. If I express my
concerns
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
to the Courts, can they ensure that the NRP has to use an independent G.P?
I'm not sure the court has the power to specify a doctor, or exclude one.
He can get it done at his own surgery or a hospital. I suppose if the result
wasn't what you expected but the details given were his, that you could take
the case to a higher court to get the declaration overturned.
Epensive though.
Oh, and if you think his doc colluded, you can complain to the body that
oversees doctors.
Martin <><
Martin Davies
2005-01-26 20:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iona
surely if the doctor knew the fella to be tested in anything other than a
professional way i.e go for a pint etc then that doc would not be able to do
the test?
Surely that would be wrong
Why?
The two doctors I see I have both known socially too.
Nothing wrong with that. Doctors are allowed friends and neighbours without
breaching medical ethics.

Martin <><



<snipped>
Iona
2005-01-26 20:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Iona
surely if the doctor knew the fella to be tested in anything other than a
professional way i.e go for a pint etc then that doc would not be able to
do
Post by Iona
the test?
Surely that would be wrong
Why?
The two doctors I see I have both known socially too.
Nothing wrong with that. Doctors are allowed friends and neighbours without
breaching medical ethics.
Thats not what I mean, a doctor doing a paternity test for a friend should
not happen, in a perfect world everything would be honest and above board,
unfortunately it's not a perfect world and people do cheat.

Someone doing the test personally knowing the person being tested should not
do it if only to protect themselves from any repercutions (don't know if
i've spelt that right)

if the test was done and Lyn took it to court to contest the results and it
could be proved the tester knew the patient personally then i would have
thought that a judge would take steps to put things right and keep the test
independent.

just my personal thoughts not an attack on Drs
Martin Davies
2005-01-26 23:00:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iona
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Iona
surely if the doctor knew the fella to be tested in anything other than a
professional way i.e go for a pint etc then that doc would not be able to
do
Post by Iona
the test?
Surely that would be wrong
Why?
The two doctors I see I have both known socially too.
Nothing wrong with that. Doctors are allowed friends and neighbours without
breaching medical ethics.
Thats not what I mean, a doctor doing a paternity test for a friend should
not happen, in a perfect world everything would be honest and above board,
unfortunately it's not a perfect world and people do cheat.
I don't see a difference between a doctor taking blood for a blood test and
a doctor taking blood for a DNA test.
Or mouth swabs, which some places can do tests with these days.
Post by Iona
Someone doing the test personally knowing the person being tested should not
do it if only to protect themselves from any repercutions (don't know if
i've spelt that right)
The doctor takes the sample, thats it.
The person doing the test will almost always not know the people concerned.
Post by Iona
if the test was done and Lyn took it to court to contest the results and it
could be proved the tester knew the patient personally then i would have
thought that a judge would take steps to put things right and keep the test
independent.
But the tester knowing the patient personally is different from the person
taking the sample (the GP) knowing the patient personally.
The test is done taking the DNA strands, taking away the mother's DNA from
the child's DNA. Whats left must match the father.

Its not a total impossibility that a doctor could substitute someone else's
blood when sending the sample off. Just very unlikely.
And for the doctor it risks his/her career.

Martin <><
Post by Iona
just my personal thoughts not an attack on Drs
"Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
2005-01-27 22:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Martin & Iona for your comments.

There is an underworld where money can buy anything. Believe me, I know
because in this case the NRP lives in that underworld.

The CSA have a very good Legal Advice Team. It is their suggestion that I
take this case to Court where my Solicitors can word the case in such a way
so as to persuade the Court for Independent testing and / or supervising the
test to the satisfaction of all parties. If the NRP does not comply with the
Court's requests, this will obviously work against him.

Having said that, I still feel concern.........the network of the underworld
stretches very far.

I'll let you know how I get on.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father. Although being the father, he has
denied parentage so as not to pay maintenance. He has however made a
statement to the Police, admitting that he is the father of my son - we
will be persuing a Declaration on this basis.
Just wondered if anyone can give me any info as to what is involved and
how long this might take. Is a Court appearance necessary? With the
Police statement as evidence, would a DNA test still be required?
Any other info any of you can give please?
I would approach my Solicitor, but a 'phone call alone costs about £10!
Iona
2005-01-28 08:13:23 UTC
Permalink
I agree, dodgy people are everywhere there will always be someone ready to
to take the money.
This is why I think that testing should be completely independent less risk
of abuse I reckon.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Thank you Martin & Iona for your comments.
There is an underworld where money can buy anything. Believe me, I know
because in this case the NRP lives in that underworld.
The CSA have a very good Legal Advice Team. It is their suggestion that I
take this case to Court where my Solicitors can word the case in such a
way so as to persuade the Court for Independent testing and / or
supervising the test to the satisfaction of all parties. If the NRP does
not comply with the Court's requests, this will obviously work against
him.
Having said that, I still feel concern.........the network of the
underworld stretches very far.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
I have instructed my Solicitor to apply for a Declaration of Paternity
against my 8 year old son's father. Although being the father, he has
denied parentage so as not to pay maintenance. He has however made a
statement to the Police, admitting that he is the father of my son - we
will be persuing a Declaration on this basis.
Just wondered if anyone can give me any info as to what is involved and
how long this might take. Is a Court appearance necessary? With the
Police statement as evidence, would a DNA test still be required?
Any other info any of you can give please?
I would approach my Solicitor, but a 'phone call alone costs about £10!
Martin Davies
2005-01-28 09:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iona
I agree, dodgy people are everywhere there will always be someone ready to
to take the money.
This is why I think that testing should be completely independent less risk
of abuse I reckon.
The testing itself is independent.
Its only the taking of the samples that isn't.

And a woman can get a declaration of paternity made by dodgy dealings far
easier than it is for the bloke.

Martin <><
"Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
2005-01-28 14:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Martin, I don't see how you can say that.

All samples have to be given to the tester independently; the NRP's sample
cannot be given to the PWC for submission and vice versa.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Iona
I agree, dodgy people are everywhere there will always be someone ready to
to take the money.
This is why I think that testing should be completely independent less
risk
Post by Iona
of abuse I reckon.
The testing itself is independent.
Its only the taking of the samples that isn't.
And a woman can get a declaration of paternity made by dodgy dealings far
easier than it is for the bloke.
Martin <><
Martin Davies
2005-01-28 16:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Martin, I don't see how you can say that.
All samples have to be given to the tester independently; the NRP's sample
cannot be given to the PWC for submission and vice versa.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Iona
I agree, dodgy people are everywhere there will always be someone ready to
to take the money.
This is why I think that testing should be completely independent less
risk
Post by Iona
of abuse I reckon.
The testing itself is independent.
Its only the taking of the samples that isn't.
And a woman can get a declaration of paternity made by dodgy dealings far
easier than it is for the bloke.
Martin <><
For a bloke to falsify the sample, he gets a mate to go to a doctors as him,
with mate's photograph and so on. If the woman doesn't know what he
currently looks like, it can work. Relatives don't work for that though.
For a woman to get a declaration of parentage against someone who isn't the
father, its a bit more complicated. It does require the collusion of the
real father too.
It would need the woman to declare a name and address that she has access to
the post at (friend perhaps), naming some guy as the father. Real father has
the test done as this other guy who doesn't know whats going on as no mail
is reaching him.
The results of course come back positive, and court does a declaration of
paternity.

Then the bombshell is dropped - woman declares guy has moved, gives new
address. And a declaration of parentage already exists. A sod to get
overturned.

If someone sets out to falsify the results, those are two ways it can be
done. I've come across both at least once.

Either one would be pretty rare, and each has a chance of being caught out.

Martin <><
"Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
2005-01-28 22:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Well, you learn something new every day!!
Post by Martin Davies
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Martin, I don't see how you can say that.
All samples have to be given to the tester independently; the NRP's sample
cannot be given to the PWC for submission and vice versa.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Iona
I agree, dodgy people are everywhere there will always be someone
ready
to
to take the money.
This is why I think that testing should be completely independent less
risk
Post by Iona
of abuse I reckon.
The testing itself is independent.
Its only the taking of the samples that isn't.
And a woman can get a declaration of paternity made by dodgy dealings
far
Post by "Lyn Davis" @ntlworld.com>
Post by Martin Davies
easier than it is for the bloke.
Martin <><
For a bloke to falsify the sample, he gets a mate to go to a doctors as him,
with mate's photograph and so on. If the woman doesn't know what he
currently looks like, it can work. Relatives don't work for that though.
For a woman to get a declaration of parentage against someone who isn't the
father, its a bit more complicated. It does require the collusion of the
real father too.
It would need the woman to declare a name and address that she has access to
the post at (friend perhaps), naming some guy as the father. Real father has
the test done as this other guy who doesn't know whats going on as no mail
is reaching him.
The results of course come back positive, and court does a declaration of
paternity.
Then the bombshell is dropped - woman declares guy has moved, gives new
address. And a declaration of parentage already exists. A sod to get
overturned.
If someone sets out to falsify the results, those are two ways it can be
done. I've come across both at least once.
Either one would be pretty rare, and each has a chance of being caught out.
Martin <><
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