Discussion:
Just sent this in (PM email)
(too old to reply)
Neil D.
2006-01-04 10:05:20 UTC
Permalink
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and send
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who have
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.

In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never considering
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.

In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every weekend,
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still changes
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the christmas
period.

In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my son
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I could
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending a
week with his daddy.

I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.

Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce the
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.

When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the local
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and keep
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?

If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.

When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.

A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every week.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She said
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?

You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.

I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage the
mothers to see their children.

I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted to
do whats right.

In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit seperated
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with reduced
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).

I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the best
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.

Kind regards,

Neil Duffy
tony
2006-01-04 17:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Im an ex-senior residential social worker, to deny a child of a parent for
no good reason is not in the interest of the child.

Logically this is emotional abuse, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be acted
on very oftern... (but the law is the law, or is it???)

The children act 1989 indicates that the child has the "RIGHT" to know both
parents. The rights of the child over ride the right of parents in many ways
and are/should be given priority.
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and send
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who
have no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about
another issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding
contact and constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every weekend,
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still changes
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the christmas
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I
could only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to
spending a week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce
the orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time
and money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the
local social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and
keep the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every week.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She
said no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How
can that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage the
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted
to do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit seperated
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with
reduced frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the best
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
m***@hotmail.com
2006-01-08 12:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Neil,its unfortunate that both mothers and fathers behave that way.
In your case, its the mother causing problems and not behaving
regarding contact. For some others, its the father doing the same sort
of thing.

Be interesting to hear what sort of reply you get.

Martin <><
RedRazor
2006-01-16 10:41:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and send
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who have
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never considering
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every weekend,
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still changes
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the christmas
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my son
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I could
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending a
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce the
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the local
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and keep
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every week.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She said
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage the
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted to
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit seperated
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with reduced
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the best
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.

You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?

So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.

Just listen to yourself.

"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"

It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.

And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.

I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.

Why, why, why.
Fletcher
2006-01-16 12:13:37 UTC
Permalink
I have to ask you, have you been in this situation, i.e. NRP with a
domineering ex who uses the child as a bargaining tool?

No! Well don't critise this poster, many of us here have not only read it
here, like you, constantly hearing it, but we read it constantly, we've seen
it over and over and many here have and are living with that situation.

You put a lot of store in courts but we KNOW different, take the ex to court
and contact ends, certainly until the case arrives in court and in many
cases even though access is decreed she simply ignores the ruling and
continues to deny access with absolute impunity unlike the NRP who is howned
by CSA and can be jailed for failing to pay no one, not even the judges
force these women to grant access.

There is a famous case where the father just eventually gave up when the
child was 12, he'd been battling for 5 years for access, spent £60,000 on
legal fees, been to court on 50, yes that's fifty separate occasions and
still she denied access with total impunity. Was she jailed? NO.

So please don't preach on here about what you just think people should do,
by all means offer help, suggestions and encouragement but if this poster
took your post literally he could totaly loose contact with his kid!
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and send
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who have
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never considering
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every weekend,
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still changes
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the christmas
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my son
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I could
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending a
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce the
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the local
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and keep
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every week.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She said
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage the
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted to
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit seperated
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with reduced
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the best
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
RedRazor
2006-01-16 13:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fletcher
I have to ask you, have you been in this situation, i.e. NRP with a
domineering ex who uses the child as a bargaining tool?
Yes I am in that position right now. Women are Women and they will use
anything within their means to get their own way, Often they they will
even lower themselves to using their kids. Lets not condemn them for
that, its the way they are made, it their nature.
Post by Fletcher
No! Well don't critise this poster, many of us here have not only read it
here, like you, constantly hearing it, but we read it constantly, we've seen
it over and over and many here have and are living with that situation.
Exactly, I think that the problem is being perpetuated, at least in part
because we perceive that women have rights that we don't.

For example: I guy I know from work has recently separated, A comment he
made to me was "I'm not too upset about her leaving me, she can have the
house, and the car, Just so long as she lets me see the kids".

You see the problem, right from the beggining he is placing her in a
position of dominance, he is trying to supplicate her by letting her
keep their home and belongings in the hope that SHE LETS HIM see the
kids. But this is absurd because she has no authority to prevent him
from spending time with his kids, except in his (and possibly her) mind.


RedRazor.

PS.
I hope I didn't come accross as harsh or uncaring to the OP, I know how
difficult a time this can be, I was using his letter to make more
general point that is bothering me.
Post by Fletcher
You put a lot of store in courts but we KNOW different, take the ex to court
and contact ends, certainly until the case arrives in court and in many
cases even though access is decreed she simply ignores the ruling and
continues to deny access with absolute impunity unlike the NRP who is howned
by CSA and can be jailed for failing to pay no one, not even the judges
force these women to grant access.
There is a famous case where the father just eventually gave up when the
child was 12, he'd been battling for 5 years for access, spent £60,000 on
legal fees, been to court on 50, yes that's fifty separate occasions and
still she denied access with total impunity. Was she jailed? NO.
So please don't preach on here about what you just think people should do,
by all means offer help, suggestions and encouragement but if this poster
took your post literally he could totaly loose contact with his kid!
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and
send
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who
have
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend,
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still
changes
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the
christmas
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I
could
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending
a
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and
i
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce
the
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the
local
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and
keep
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She
said
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage
the
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be
trusted to
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with
reduced
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the
best
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
Martin Davies
2006-01-16 13:45:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
I have to ask you, have you been in this situation, i.e. NRP with a
domineering ex who uses the child as a bargaining tool?
Yes I am in that position right now. Women are Women and they will use
anything within their means to get their own way, Often they they will
even lower themselves to using their kids. Lets not condemn them for
that, its the way they are made, it their nature.
Same as men then.
Nice to know there is no difference between the sexes that way.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
No! Well don't critise this poster, many of us here have not only
read it here, like you, constantly hearing it, but we read it
constantly, we've seen it over and over and many here have and are
living with that situation.
Exactly, I think that the problem is being perpetuated, at least in
part because we perceive that women have rights that we don't.
And the child's rights, the child's home, where does that come into this?
Post by RedRazor
For example: I guy I know from work has recently separated, A comment
he made to me was "I'm not too upset about her leaving me, she can
have the house, and the car, Just so long as she lets me see the
kids".
And should the kids be taken out of the house they consider home?
Perhaps to live with dad? Or would dad want to get a cheaper place to live
than one big enough to have the kids live with him?

Plus not every single parent is willing to take time off work/pay for
childminder for the required time to have the kids live with him.
Some do, some don't, some simply can't afford it.
Post by RedRazor
You see the problem, right from the beggining he is placing her in a
position of dominance, he is trying to supplicate her by letting her
keep their home and belongings in the hope that SHE LETS HIM see the
kids. But this is absurd because she has no authority to prevent him
from spending time with his kids, except in his (and possibly her) mind.
So why did he move out? Why not move her out and the kids stay in the home
with him?

Martin <><
Post by RedRazor
RedRazor.
PS.
I hope I didn't come accross as harsh or uncaring to the OP, I know
how difficult a time this can be, I was using his letter to make more
general point that is bothering me.
<snipped>
RedRazor
2006-01-16 14:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Davies
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
I have to ask you, have you been in this situation, i.e. NRP with a
domineering ex who uses the child as a bargaining tool?
Yes I am in that position right now. Women are Women and they will use
anything within their means to get their own way, Often they they will
even lower themselves to using their kids. Lets not condemn them for
that, its the way they are made, it their nature.
Same as men then.
I'm not saying it dosn't happen, but i've never known a man to use the
kids as a bargaining tool against the ex-wife, even in the rare cases
where he has custody.
Post by Martin Davies
Nice to know there is no difference between the sexes that way.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
No! Well don't critise this poster, many of us here have not only
read it here, like you, constantly hearing it, but we read it
constantly, we've seen it over and over and many here have and are
living with that situation.
Exactly, I think that the problem is being perpetuated, at least in
part because we perceive that women have rights that we don't.
And the child's rights, the child's home, where does that come into this?
Post by RedRazor
For example: I guy I know from work has recently separated, A comment
he made to me was "I'm not too upset about her leaving me, she can
have the house, and the car, Just so long as she lets me see the
kids".
And should the kids be taken out of the house they consider home?
Perhaps to live with dad? Or would dad want to get a cheaper place to live
than one big enough to have the kids live with him?
Plus not every single parent is willing to take time off work/pay for
childminder for the required time to have the kids live with him.
Some do, some don't, some simply can't afford it.
Post by RedRazor
You see the problem, right from the beggining he is placing her in a
position of dominance, he is trying to supplicate her by letting her
keep their home and belongings in the hope that SHE LETS HIM see the
kids. But this is absurd because she has no authority to prevent him
from spending time with his kids, except in his (and possibly her) mind.
So why did he move out? Why not move her out and the kids stay in the home
with him?
Exactly my point, He *assumed* that he should be the one to move out, he
*assumed* that she will have the kids and he is assuming that if he does
this then she will LET HIM spend time with them.

I think his assumptions are wrong. I think he should have stayed in the
house, assumed that the kids will remain with him, and assumed that he
can spend time with them at his choosing.

RedRazor
Post by Martin Davies
Martin <><
Post by RedRazor
RedRazor.
PS.
I hope I didn't come accross as harsh or uncaring to the OP, I know
how difficult a time this can be, I was using his letter to make more
general point that is bothering me.
<snipped>
Fletcher
2006-01-16 13:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Yes I agree that men give away everything to women in the hope that the
women play nice as far as the kids go but I don't agree at all with your
idea that their is an equality after a split, she gets the kids and the
child benefit book so effectively she 'owns' the kid, Now I'm telling your
this from personal experience, my ex denied me access to my kids and I had
to talk to them through school railings at intervals or lunch times so I've
been there and there no equality, the CSA don't care, the police will grab
you if you try and take the kids and the courts will take dim view of your
actions if you do so forget about equality.

I'm not saying there can't be any equality but it's entirely dependent on
her cooperation.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
I have to ask you, have you been in this situation, i.e. NRP with a
domineering ex who uses the child as a bargaining tool?
Yes I am in that position right now. Women are Women and they will use
anything within their means to get their own way, Often they they will
even lower themselves to using their kids. Lets not condemn them for
that, its the way they are made, it their nature.
Post by Fletcher
No! Well don't critise this poster, many of us here have not only read it
here, like you, constantly hearing it, but we read it constantly, we've seen
it over and over and many here have and are living with that situation.
Exactly, I think that the problem is being perpetuated, at least in part
because we perceive that women have rights that we don't.
For example: I guy I know from work has recently separated, A comment he
made to me was "I'm not too upset about her leaving me, she can have the
house, and the car, Just so long as she lets me see the kids".
You see the problem, right from the beggining he is placing her in a
position of dominance, he is trying to supplicate her by letting her
keep their home and belongings in the hope that SHE LETS HIM see the
kids. But this is absurd because she has no authority to prevent him
from spending time with his kids, except in his (and possibly her) mind.
RedRazor.
PS.
I hope I didn't come accross as harsh or uncaring to the OP, I know how
difficult a time this can be, I was using his letter to make more
general point that is bothering me.
Post by Fletcher
You put a lot of store in courts but we KNOW different, take the ex to court
and contact ends, certainly until the case arrives in court and in many
cases even though access is decreed she simply ignores the ruling and
continues to deny access with absolute impunity unlike the NRP who is howned
by CSA and can be jailed for failing to pay no one, not even the judges
force these women to grant access.
There is a famous case where the father just eventually gave up when the
child was 12, he'd been battling for 5 years for access, spent £60,000 on
legal fees, been to court on 50, yes that's fifty separate occasions and
still she denied access with total impunity. Was she jailed? NO.
So please don't preach on here about what you just think people should do,
by all means offer help, suggestions and encouragement but if this poster
took your post literally he could totaly loose contact with his kid!
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and
send
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who
have
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend,
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still
changes
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the
christmas
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I
could
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending
a
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and
i
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce
the
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the
local
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and
keep
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She
said
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage
the
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be
trusted to
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with
reduced
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the
best
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
NACSA CHAIR
2006-01-16 12:36:02 UTC
Permalink
So you recommend the father turning up to the house as and when he felt like
having access and simply taking the child??? is that whether or not the
child wanted to go with you??? or perhaps you can drag him away from his
mother as he comes out of school???

What nonsense you talk - how does a father physically take a child without
prior arrangement with the mother - do you not think child abuse would be
screamed from the highest level!!!
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and
send it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who
have no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about
another issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding
contact and constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend, to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This
still changes according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact
over the christmas period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said
I could only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to
spending a week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce
the orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time
and money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the
local social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship
and keep the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week. Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say.
In response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She
said no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How
can that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the
best interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage
the mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted
to do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then
with reduced frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the
best interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just so
wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that i've
come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that 'she'
is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you spend
time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I
could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and taking
control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who promptly
take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
Martin Davies
2006-01-16 13:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Some have tried that in the past.
Even without residency order, the police have been involved and treated it
as kidnapping.


In this sitaution, from what is posted, the child lives with the mother.

Martin <><
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you recommend the father turning up to the house as and when he
felt like having access and simply taking the child??? is that
whether or not the child wanted to go with you??? or perhaps you can
drag him away from his mother as he comes out of school???
What nonsense you talk - how does a father physically take a child
without prior arrangement with the mother - do you not think child
abuse would be screamed from the highest level!!!
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down
and send it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non
paying fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those
fathers who have no interest in the welfare of their child, i am
concerned about another issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering whats best for my son. She's always threatening me
regarding contact and constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend, to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This
still changes according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost
contact over the christmas period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could
have my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind
again and said I could only have my son 2 days, even though she was
looking forward to spending a week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order
and i intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot
enforce the orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a
waste of time and money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for
the local social services etc to monitor the seperated family
relationship and keep the mothers who are thinking only of
themselves inline? If a child is being physically abused, the social
services
intervene. When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in
question is being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week. Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to
say. In response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of
my son. She said no, with no explanation and then withdrew that
weekends contact. How can that be right? Who is making sure these
mothers are acting in the best interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that
they behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to
encourage the mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be
trusted to do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated families (mother and father), initially every 3 months
and then with reduced frequency as time goes on (assuming the
mother behaves). I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that
in my case,
the best interests of the child are not being observed and even
with court intervention, this child will continually subjected to
the immature behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is
just so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first
time that i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow
her to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when
you spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of
power or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is
that both parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could
have my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind
again and said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on
holiday, full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a
court order preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the
courts are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother
as you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing
and taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the
courts who promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
--
http://www.cashisallyouneed.co.uk/
RedRazor
2006-01-16 14:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Davies
Some have tried that in the past.
Even without residency order, the police have been involved and treated it
as kidnapping.
In this sitaution, from what is posted, the child lives with the mother.
He said that their was no court order. Therefore either parent has the
right to collect thier child from school. Granted that if the child
normally lives with its mother and that if the mother usually is the one
to collect the child, then it would be 'odd' for the father to turn up
unnanounced to collect the child, it would not however be illegal and
the father just may have a good reason for it.


What is bothering me is this false assumption that the mother has rights
that the father dosn't, that I keep coming accross. When my child was
born I agreed to stay at home and look after it so that the mother could
continue to pursue her carreer (I gave up mine to look after the child),
therefore when we separated I automatically assumed that the child would
remain with me. It saddens me to hear grown men talking about how their
ex's allow this and demand that when they havn't got any extra rights to
do so.
Post by Martin Davies
Martin <><
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you recommend the father turning up to the house as and when he
felt like having access and simply taking the child???
Not quite, turning up like that would be bad manners. But he does have
equal right to spend time with the kid as is convenient.

is that
Post by Martin Davies
Post by NACSA CHAIR
whether or not the child wanted to go with you???
That would perhaps depend upon the age of the child.

or perhaps you can
Post by Martin Davies
Post by NACSA CHAIR
drag him away from his mother as he comes out of school???
Silly, You wouldn't be dragging away from mother, you would be
collecting from school.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by NACSA CHAIR
What nonsense you talk - how does a father physically take a child
without prior arrangement with the mother - do you not think child
abuse would be screamed from the highest level!!!
Then scream louder than she !!!
Post by Martin Davies
Post by NACSA CHAIR
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down
and send it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non
paying fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those
fathers who have no interest in the welfare of their child, i am
concerned about another issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering whats best for my son. She's always threatening me
regarding contact and constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend, to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This
still changes according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost
contact over the christmas period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could
have my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind
again and said I could only have my son 2 days, even though she was
looking forward to spending a week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order
and i intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot
enforce the orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a
waste of time and money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for
the local social services etc to monitor the seperated family
relationship and keep the mothers who are thinking only of
themselves inline? If a child is being physically abused, the social
services
intervene. When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in
question is being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week. Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to
say. In response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of
my son. She said no, with no explanation and then withdrew that
weekends contact. How can that be right? Who is making sure these
mothers are acting in the best interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that
they behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to
encourage the mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be
trusted to do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated families (mother and father), initially every 3 months
and then with reduced frequency as time goes on (assuming the
mother behaves). I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that
in my case,
the best interests of the child are not being observed and even
with court intervention, this child will continually subjected to
the immature behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is
just so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first
time that i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow
her to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when
you spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of
power or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is
that both parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could
have my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind
again and said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on
holiday, full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a
court order preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the
courts are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother
as you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing
and taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the
courts who promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
RedRazor
2006-01-16 13:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you recommend the father turning up to the house as and when he felt like
having access and simply taking the child??? is that whether or not the
child wanted to go with you??? or perhaps you can drag him away from his
mother as he comes out of school???
What nonsense you talk - how does a father physically take a child without
prior arrangement with the mother - do you not think child abuse would be
screamed from the highest level!!!
This is exactly proves the mentality that I find so disturbing (and
before I go on let me state that I am being hypocritical here because I
have fallen for it myself)

Please re-read in the OP's last paragraph "how does a father physically
take a child without prior arrangement with the mother"

That smacks of assuming that the father has to 'take' the child from the
mother, why should he think this, does not think that he has the same
right to be with the child as its mother ?

For example when my child is with me I occaisionaly have friends say
something like "when is she going home" when what they really mean is
"when is she going to her mothers", this winds me up so much because my
daughter and I have always refferred to our house as 'home' my daughter
always reffers to her mothers house as 'mummy's house'. It is only my
well meaning friends that refer to 'mummys house as being 'home'.

And why would he have to 'drag him away from his mother as he comes out
of school' why doesn't he simply 'collect him from school' which
presumable is what the mother is thinking.

RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and
send it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who
have no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about
another issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding
contact and constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend, to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This
still changes according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact
over the christmas period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said
I could only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to
spending a week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce
the orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time
and money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the
local social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship
and keep the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week. Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say.
In response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She
said no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How
can that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the
best interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage
the mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted
to do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then
with reduced frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the
best interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just so
wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that i've
come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that 'she'
is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you spend
time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I
could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and taking
control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who promptly
take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
NACSA CHAIR
2006-01-16 15:52:20 UTC
Permalink
your right it does smack of assuming that the father has to "take" the
child...because if the mother is not a willing participant with free access
the child is going to be in the middle of an unpleasant confrontation each
time the father decides he wants access. cant see this as being in the best
interests of the child.

dont get me wrong...i am an avid campaigner for fathers to have equal
rights...but that doesnt stop the fact that you are dealing with children,
and unless free access is offered that child is going to be in a nightmare
situation every time father decides to come and see him without
arrangements. I agree entirely that it shouldnt be a matter of one deciding
to offer access, and fully support the idea of having equal access on the
point of separation unless it can be proven to be not good for the
child...but the fact remains that whomever the child lives with is the one
that tends to be the person to regulate access.

and i have been stereo typical here for ease....but i am sure that all the
resident dads would also feel very concerned about the mother who simply
decided she wanted access at that particular tmie and just came along and
took the child????

yes the law is wrong to assume one parent has a say over access and yes the
law needs changing. but you cannot claim that you are thinking of a child
if you put him in a situation where conflict is going to occur between mom
and dad everytime you decide to see him....god knows i couldnt deal with
that now at nearly 40!!!

NACSA CHAIR
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you recommend the father turning up to the house as and when he felt
like having access and simply taking the child??? is that whether or not
the child wanted to go with you??? or perhaps you can drag him away from
his mother as he comes out of school???
What nonsense you talk - how does a father physically take a child
without prior arrangement with the mother - do you not think child abuse
would be screamed from the highest level!!!
This is exactly proves the mentality that I find so disturbing (and before
I go on let me state that I am being hypocritical here because I have
fallen for it myself)
Please re-read in the OP's last paragraph "how does a father physically
take a child without prior arrangement with the mother"
That smacks of assuming that the father has to 'take' the child from the
mother, why should he think this, does not think that he has the same
right to be with the child as its mother ?
For example when my child is with me I occaisionaly have friends say
something like "when is she going home" when what they really mean is
"when is she going to her mothers", this winds me up so much because my
daughter and I have always refferred to our house as 'home' my daughter
always reffers to her mothers house as 'mummy's house'. It is only my well
meaning friends that refer to 'mummys house as being 'home'.
And why would he have to 'drag him away from his mother as he comes out of
school' why doesn't he simply 'collect him from school' which presumable
is what the mother is thinking.
RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and
send it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who
have no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about
another issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding
contact and constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend, to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This
still changes according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact
over the christmas period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said
I could only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to
spending a week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and
i intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce
the orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time
and money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the
local social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship
and keep the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week. Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say.
In response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son.
She said no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends
contact. How can that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are
acting in the best interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage
the mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be
trusted to do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and
then with reduced frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother
behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the
best interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my
son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said
I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and taking
control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who promptly
take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
justin
2006-01-16 12:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Flame on Razor!

redrazor is just stirring I recon - never posted before and trying to
start a flame war
Don't waste time arguing with it. As Fletch says, probably knows
nothing of what it's really like.

ignore!

Justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and send
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who have
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never considering
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every weekend,
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still changes
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the christmas
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my son
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I could
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending a
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce the
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the local
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and keep
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every week.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She said
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage the
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted to
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit seperated
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with reduced
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the best
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
Fletcher
2006-01-16 13:39:17 UTC
Permalink
No This isn't flame waring, the guy means well, he just hasn't expierienced
the nasty side of things and finds it difficult to understand how these
things occur.

Before my marrige ended I had a very nieve view on all off this stuff, it's
taken years to gain this 'education'
Post by justin
Flame on Razor!
redrazor is just stirring I recon - never posted before and trying to
start a flame war
Don't waste time arguing with it. As Fletch says, probably knows
nothing of what it's really like.
ignore!
Justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down and send
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers who have
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about another
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never considering
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact and
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every weekend,
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still changes
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the christmas
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have my son
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said I could
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to spending a
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order and i
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot enforce the
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time and
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for the local
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and keep
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question is
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every week.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son. She said
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How can
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that they
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to encourage the
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be trusted to
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit seperated
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with reduced
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the best
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
Neil D.
2006-01-17 08:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for all the posts.

Whilst i agree we should not let the women walk all over us, i am trying to
spare my child the tears when he see's mum and dad falling out.

At it stands, i think i might write a friendly letter to her.

Thanks

Neil
Post by Fletcher
No This isn't flame waring, the guy means well, he just hasn't
expierienced
the nasty side of things and finds it difficult to understand how these
things occur.
Before my marrige ended I had a very nieve view on all off this stuff, it's
taken years to gain this 'education'
Post by justin
Flame on Razor!
redrazor is just stirring I recon - never posted before and trying to
start a flame war
Don't waste time arguing with it. As Fletch says, probably knows
nothing of what it's really like.
ignore!
Justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
I know i probably just wasted 15 mins but i had to write this down
and
send
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
it in number-10.gov.uk
RE: Single Mothers
Hello, i read recently about changes which intend to target non paying
fathers. Whilst i appreciate this is a good move for those fathers
who
have
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
no interest in the welfare of their child, i am concerned about
another
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
issue.
In my situation, my ex partner acts as a law unto herself, never
considering
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
whats best for my son. She's always threatening me regarding contact
and
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
constantly changes it.
In the 3 years since our split, my contact has changed from every
weekend,
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
to every other with wed night tea and now every other. This still
changes
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
according to her mood. Infact, i virtually lost contact over the
christmas
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
period.
In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and said
I
could
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
only have my son 2 days, even though she was looking forward to
spending a
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
week with his daddy.
I realise that the usual practise is to obtain a court access order
and i
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
intend to investigate this further.
Even if I did goto court, its been shown that the system cannot
enforce the
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
orders, therefore, any involvement on their part is a waste of time
and
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
money.
When 2 parents have split, do you not think it would be better for
the
local
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
social services etc to monitor the seperated family relationship and
keep
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
the mothers who are thinking only of themselves inline?
If a child is being physically abused, the social services intervene.
When a mother persists in dissrupting contact, the child in question
is
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
being mentally abused.
A month ago, my son asked me why is cousin gets to see his dad every
week.
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
Since I am not as petty as the mother, i didn't know what to say. In
response, I asked the mother if I could please see more of my son.
She
said
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
no, with no explanation and then withdrew that weekends contact. How
can
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
that be right? Who is making sure these mothers are acting in the best
interests of the child?
You cannot assume that just because these mothers are adults, that
they
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
behave like adults.
I read somewhere that is this the wishes of the goverment to
encourage
the
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
mothers to see their children.
I think is naive to think that the main responsible parent can be
trusted to
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
do whats right.
In my opinion, when a split occurs, social services should visit
seperated
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
families (mother and father), initially every 3 months and then with
reduced
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
frequency as time goes on (assuming the mother behaves).
I hope you read this, because I believe strongly that in my case, the
best
Post by justin
Post by RedRazor
Post by Neil D.
interests of the child are not being observed and even with court
intervention, this child will continually subjected to the immature
behaviour of his mother.
Kind regards,
Neil Duffy
I've just read your letter and there is something in there that is just
so wrong that its hard to beleive, and yet its not the first time that
i've come upon this phenomonon.
You say that you have split from your wife three years ago, and that
'she' is making contact difficult between you and your son.
I hear this type of statement all the time, but it is a nonsence.
You say that there is no court order in force, why then do you allow her
to determine your contact ? Wht do YOU allow HER to dictate when you
spend time with your son or take him on holiday ?
So many fathers seem to assume is that the mother has some sort of power
or authority over the child that they do not, the reality is that both
parents have equal rights and authority (YES THEY DO)
The only exceptions to this is where a court order is in force which
defines these isues or where the parents where not married.
Just listen to yourself.
"In the summer she ordered me to take a week off work, so I could have
my son in the hols. When the time come, she changed her mind again and
said I could only have my son 2 days"
It is really quite pathetic, you should have taken your son on holiday,
full stop. If she dosn't like it then let HER apply for a court order
preventing you from doing so again.
And that brings me to this point, why is it almost always us men that
apply for a court order. This seems especially strange since the courts
are so biased against fathers.
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and
taking control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who
promptly take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
Smudge Smith
2006-01-17 18:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Red Razor...

I don't think you have ever been in the position of going to work on Friday
morning...finishing at five then driving for 11 hours from Northants to
Belfast at considerable cost in fuel bills, ferry ticket...arriving next
morning to collect child ony to find out that they have gone out because
Mother has "other plans"...get real mate!
Post by RedRazor
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and taking
control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who promptly
take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
RedRazor
2006-01-18 00:40:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smudge Smith
Red Razor...
I don't think you have ever been in the position of going to work on Friday
morning...finishing at five then driving for 11 hours from Northants to
Belfast at considerable cost in fuel bills, ferry ticket...arriving next
morning to collect child ony to find out that they have gone out because
Mother has "other plans"...get real mate!
Just wondering, but have you ever done that to her ?
I'm not recommending getting into a tit-for-tac, however I have started
to find with my ex that *not* supplicating and taking her shit but
teaching her a lesson occaisionally instead yeilds better results. For
instance I had a situation recently where she was short on money and
started demanding things from me each time I collected our daughter,
usually items of clothing, new shoes etc. She even threatened to not let
our daughter leave with me if I did not comply (which is really silly of
her cuz I have a court order ), anyway I got fed up off this when we
started running low on clothing at home, so I simply turned the tables,
I told her that if the items of clothing were not returned then she
would have to collect her from our house instead of me driving to her
house (of course she should do this anyway but she dosn't drive and
public transport is shite). Well that seems to have done the trick
because although the journey only takes me about half an hour by car it
would take her over 3 hours by bus(es).

Basically what I am saying is that the more we(dads) back down the more
shit we are expected to take, I see a lot of men backing down and taking
heaploads of shite and that just makes it harder for the rest of us.
I guess its a bit like when there is a disagreement at work and because
80% of the workforce are cowards that back down easily to the
management bully tactics the 20% that are preparred to stand up for
their rights and everyone elses are easliy victimised and beaten, (i've
seen this happen a couple of times)

And one last point, I am sick and tired of hearing dads using 'childs
best interest' as an excuse for constant appeasement and innaction.

If you are a good dad then it is in your childs interest that you spend
time nuturing them. If that upsets their mother then that is her
problem, fuck her. And if the state don't like it then fuck them too,
they are all shit for brain tossers anyway and if it was up to me they
would all get their fucking necks stretched.

RedRazor
Post by Smudge Smith
Post by RedRazor
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and taking
control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who promptly
take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
Martin Davies
2006-01-18 08:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by RedRazor
Post by Smudge Smith
Red Razor...
I don't think you have ever been in the position of going to work on
Friday morning...finishing at five then driving for 11 hours from
Northants to Belfast at considerable cost in fuel bills, ferry
ticket...arriving next morning to collect child ony to find out that
they have gone out because Mother has "other plans"...get real mate!
Just wondering, but have you ever done that to her ?
I'm not recommending getting into a tit-for-tac, however I have
started to find with my ex that *not* supplicating and taking her
shit but teaching her a lesson occaisionally instead yeilds better
results. For instance I had a situation recently where she was short
on money and started demanding things from me each time I collected
our daughter, usually items of clothing, new shoes etc. She even
threatened to not let our daughter leave with me if I did not comply
(which is really silly of her cuz I have a court order ), anyway I
got fed up off this when we started running low on clothing at home,
so I simply turned the tables, I told her that if the items of
clothing were not returned then she would have to collect her from
our house instead of me driving to her house (of course she should do
this anyway but she dosn't drive and public transport is shite). Well
that seems to have done the trick because although the journey only
takes me about half an hour by car it would take her over 3 hours by
bus(es).
Basically what I am saying is that the more we(dads) back down the
more shit we are expected to take, I see a lot of men backing down
and taking heaploads of shite and that just makes it harder for the
rest of us. I guess its a bit like when there is a disagreement at work
and
because 80% of the workforce are cowards that back down easily to the
management bully tactics the 20% that are preparred to stand up for
their rights and everyone elses are easliy victimised and beaten,
(i've seen this happen a couple of times)
And one last point, I am sick and tired of hearing dads using 'childs
best interest' as an excuse for constant appeasement and innaction.
If you are a good dad then it is in your childs interest that you
spend time nuturing them. If that upsets their mother then that is her
problem, fuck her. And if the state don't like it then fuck them too,
they are all shit for brain tossers anyway and if it was up to me they
would all get their fucking necks stretched.
RedRazor
<snipped>
So you have a court order. How does that stop her cutting access?
Never known it to actually stop someone - the best that can be done is go
back to court, and in weeks or months get a new court order or court orders
her to let you see the child.
She agrees, then next time you turn up the child is out.

That is the reality. Forcing compliance of a court order for access is a
slow process. And more likely to have contact cut over time as the child
goes months or years without seeing you.

Martin <><
RedRazor
2006-01-18 19:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Davies
Post by RedRazor
Post by Smudge Smith
Red Razor...
I don't think you have ever been in the position of going to work on
Friday morning...finishing at five then driving for 11 hours from
Northants to Belfast at considerable cost in fuel bills, ferry
ticket...arriving next morning to collect child ony to find out that
they have gone out because Mother has "other plans"...get real mate!
Just wondering, but have you ever done that to her ?
I'm not recommending getting into a tit-for-tac, however I have
started to find with my ex that *not* supplicating and taking her
shit but teaching her a lesson occaisionally instead yeilds better
results. For instance I had a situation recently where she was short
on money and started demanding things from me each time I collected
our daughter, usually items of clothing, new shoes etc. She even
threatened to not let our daughter leave with me if I did not comply
(which is really silly of her cuz I have a court order ), anyway I
got fed up off this when we started running low on clothing at home,
so I simply turned the tables, I told her that if the items of
clothing were not returned then she would have to collect her from
our house instead of me driving to her house (of course she should do
this anyway but she dosn't drive and public transport is shite). Well
that seems to have done the trick because although the journey only
takes me about half an hour by car it would take her over 3 hours by
bus(es).
Basically what I am saying is that the more we(dads) back down the
more shit we are expected to take, I see a lot of men backing down
and taking heaploads of shite and that just makes it harder for the
rest of us. I guess its a bit like when there is a disagreement at work
and
because 80% of the workforce are cowards that back down easily to the
management bully tactics the 20% that are preparred to stand up for
their rights and everyone elses are easliy victimised and beaten,
(i've seen this happen a couple of times)
And one last point, I am sick and tired of hearing dads using 'childs
best interest' as an excuse for constant appeasement and innaction.
If you are a good dad then it is in your childs interest that you
spend time nuturing them. If that upsets their mother then that is her
problem, fuck her. And if the state don't like it then fuck them too,
they are all shit for brain tossers anyway and if it was up to me they
would all get their fucking necks stretched.
RedRazor
<snipped>
So you have a court order. How does that stop her cutting access?
Never known it to actually stop someone
Well it seems to be working so far, each time she starts getting a bit
awkqward I just casually remind her about the court order and that
brings her back into line.
I have to say tho that the first time I applied to the court she was
shaking in her boots (it was 100% certain that I should have residency)
but when the court gave her residency she was as astonished as I.
We have been back to court 3 times since then and each time she becomes
a bit more confident, I think that she has begun to realise that the
court is on her side, and this is the reason why I would not bother
going back to court, they are biased and corrupt, and in my mind
illegitimate, she hiowever still has some respect for the court and
won't break the order. I guess though that she would if she thought she
could get away with it.



- the best that can be done is go
Post by Martin Davies
back to court, and in weeks or months get a new court order or court orders
her to let you see the child.
She agrees, then next time you turn up the child is out.
If she continually behaves like that, then perhaps you should do the
same to her and let her know how it feels.
Post by Martin Davies
That is the reality. Forcing compliance of a court order for access is a
slow process. And more likely to have contact cut over time as the child
goes months or years without seeing you.
Don't let that happen, ever.
Personally, I love my kid and the ONLY way that that will happen is over
my dead body.

I think that there is a difference between men and women, in that men
would *like* to spend time raising their kids but women *expect* to do
so.Perhaps that is why they are supposed to be better parents.

Certainly I know a few men who act all upset about not seeing their kids
very often but when push comes to shove they are to afraid of 'rocking
the boat' they make up all sorts of excuses and justifications for not
doing whatever is nescessary.

As far as I am concerned any loving parent will do *whatever* it takes
to ensure that their offspring is properly looked after, anyone or
anything that gets in the way, beware.

RedRazor.
NACSA CHAIR
2006-01-18 20:48:43 UTC
Permalink
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of these
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.

As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do very
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your access
...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
NACSA CHAIR
Post by RedRazor
Post by Martin Davies
Post by RedRazor
Post by Smudge Smith
Red Razor...
I don't think you have ever been in the position of going to work on
Friday morning...finishing at five then driving for 11 hours from
Northants to Belfast at considerable cost in fuel bills, ferry
ticket...arriving next morning to collect child ony to find out that
they have gone out because Mother has "other plans"...get real mate!
Just wondering, but have you ever done that to her ?
I'm not recommending getting into a tit-for-tac, however I have
started to find with my ex that *not* supplicating and taking her
shit but teaching her a lesson occaisionally instead yeilds better
results. For instance I had a situation recently where she was short
on money and started demanding things from me each time I collected
our daughter, usually items of clothing, new shoes etc. She even
threatened to not let our daughter leave with me if I did not comply
(which is really silly of her cuz I have a court order ), anyway I
got fed up off this when we started running low on clothing at home,
so I simply turned the tables, I told her that if the items of
clothing were not returned then she would have to collect her from
our house instead of me driving to her house (of course she should do
this anyway but she dosn't drive and public transport is shite). Well
that seems to have done the trick because although the journey only
takes me about half an hour by car it would take her over 3 hours by
bus(es).
Basically what I am saying is that the more we(dads) back down the
more shit we are expected to take, I see a lot of men backing down
and taking heaploads of shite and that just makes it harder for the
rest of us. I guess its a bit like when there is a disagreement at work
and
because 80% of the workforce are cowards that back down easily to the
management bully tactics the 20% that are preparred to stand up for
their rights and everyone elses are easliy victimised and beaten,
(i've seen this happen a couple of times)
And one last point, I am sick and tired of hearing dads using 'childs
best interest' as an excuse for constant appeasement and innaction.
If you are a good dad then it is in your childs interest that you
spend time nuturing them. If that upsets their mother then that is her
problem, fuck her. And if the state don't like it then fuck them too,
they are all shit for brain tossers anyway and if it was up to me they
would all get their fucking necks stretched.
RedRazor
<snipped>
So you have a court order. How does that stop her cutting access?
Never known it to actually stop someone
Well it seems to be working so far, each time she starts getting a bit
awkqward I just casually remind her about the court order and that brings
her back into line.
I have to say tho that the first time I applied to the court she was
shaking in her boots (it was 100% certain that I should have residency)
but when the court gave her residency she was as astonished as I.
We have been back to court 3 times since then and each time she becomes a
bit more confident, I think that she has begun to realise that the court
is on her side, and this is the reason why I would not bother going back
to court, they are biased and corrupt, and in my mind illegitimate, she
hiowever still has some respect for the court and won't break the order. I
guess though that she would if she thought she could get away with it.
- the best that can be done is go
Post by Martin Davies
back to court, and in weeks or months get a new court order or court
orders her to let you see the child.
She agrees, then next time you turn up the child is out.
If she continually behaves like that, then perhaps you should do the same
to her and let her know how it feels.
Post by Martin Davies
That is the reality. Forcing compliance of a court order for access is a
slow process. And more likely to have contact cut over time as the child
goes months or years without seeing you.
Don't let that happen, ever.
Personally, I love my kid and the ONLY way that that will happen is over
my dead body.
I think that there is a difference between men and women, in that men
would *like* to spend time raising their kids but women *expect* to do
so.Perhaps that is why they are supposed to be better parents.
Certainly I know a few men who act all upset about not seeing their kids
very often but when push comes to shove they are to afraid of 'rocking the
boat' they make up all sorts of excuses and justifications for not doing
whatever is nescessary.
As far as I am concerned any loving parent will do *whatever* it takes to
ensure that their offspring is properly looked after, anyone or anything
that gets in the way, beware.
RedRazor.
RedRazor
2006-01-24 21:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of these
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.
I think that is one of the biggest problems that we face, enforcement of
the orders.
We all know that the scumcourts and police filth treat men and women
differently in these cases, but does anyone really know *why*.

For example on one occaision I went to collect my daughter from her mums
and she refused to answer the door and let her come with me. I called
the police and explained the situation (our daughter lived with me at
the time and was only supposed to be visiting her mum who was suffering
mental health problems and had been making suicide attempts) but despite
this they still refused to recover her from the house for me and even
threatened *me* with arrest if I did not leave !!

Can you imagine them acting that way if *I* refused to allow her to
return home with her mum ! *I* would probably be arrested for child
abduction or something.

when I look back now I still find it absolutely gobsmackingly
unbeleivable, *and* I wish that I hadn't backed down and left, I have
since found out that my ex's mental health condition had been even worse
than I knew. Given the circumstances I had every right to collect my
daughter and I should have made it so or died trying, if the police had
insisted on enforcing *against* the order and arresting me then I would
only have been defending my childs interest, as a parent nothing should
be more natural than defending your childs interests, even if it
requires putting your own life in jeapordy.

I feel ashamed of myself for backing down that night, I have never
really gotten over it.
Post by NACSA CHAIR
As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do very
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your access
...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
I doubt I will, possibly this time round I will have the courage of my
convictions and stand my ground, but it is more likely that I will
continue to hold the same principles that I do now only act
hypocritically and back down as before.

Thats part of the problem you see, we men always put our children first,
even if it goes against our most dearly held principles and beliefs.


RedRazor.


--

BTW, You top posted.
Fletcher
2006-01-24 21:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Yes I can identify with this, I went to return my kids, they were then about
8 and 6 had a court order with fixed times, took my dad as a witness, we got
a taxi and when she didn't answer the door to the kids we let the taxi go,
it was pishing down with rain, they had to be back at 7.00pm. We stood well
back from the house as my ex is crazy and the kids were banging on the door
and my son started shouting at the top of his voice to let him in as he
needed the loo. We were soaked through to the skin then at 7.25 we saw her
head peep above the window, she just couldn't contain herself. I said that's
it I'm phoning the police, my dad was saying no but I had enough. So I
called the police, took them until 7.58 to arrive, when they did I showed
them the court order (yeh I carried it ) to return the kids at 7.00pm and
told them she was in their looking out at us four soaked in the rain. When
the cop returned from the back door, she wouldn't open the front door he
said she asked him where her kids were as they should be here by now but he
nodded as much as I know what your up against mate and the kids kissed us
good by and went in soaked through to the skin.

My hatred will never see past that day, I think you'll understand her little
joke to keep us in the rain for an hour but my kids endured this awful hour
with us and they remember too.
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of these
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.
I think that is one of the biggest problems that we face, enforcement of
the orders.
We all know that the scumcourts and police filth treat men and women
differently in these cases, but does anyone really know *why*.
For example on one occaision I went to collect my daughter from her mums
and she refused to answer the door and let her come with me. I called
the police and explained the situation (our daughter lived with me at
the time and was only supposed to be visiting her mum who was suffering
mental health problems and had been making suicide attempts) but despite
this they still refused to recover her from the house for me and even
threatened *me* with arrest if I did not leave !!
Can you imagine them acting that way if *I* refused to allow her to
return home with her mum ! *I* would probably be arrested for child
abduction or something.
when I look back now I still find it absolutely gobsmackingly
unbeleivable, *and* I wish that I hadn't backed down and left, I have
since found out that my ex's mental health condition had been even worse
than I knew. Given the circumstances I had every right to collect my
daughter and I should have made it so or died trying, if the police had
insisted on enforcing *against* the order and arresting me then I would
only have been defending my childs interest, as a parent nothing should
be more natural than defending your childs interests, even if it
requires putting your own life in jeapordy.
I feel ashamed of myself for backing down that night, I have never
really gotten over it.
Post by NACSA CHAIR
As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do very
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your access
...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
I doubt I will, possibly this time round I will have the courage of my
convictions and stand my ground, but it is more likely that I will
continue to hold the same principles that I do now only act
hypocritically and back down as before.
Thats part of the problem you see, we men always put our children first,
even if it goes against our most dearly held principles and beliefs.
RedRazor.
--
BTW, You top posted.
RedRazor
2006-01-24 22:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fletcher
Yes I can identify with this, I went to return my kids, they were then about
8 and 6 had a court order with fixed times, took my dad as a witness, we got
a taxi and when she didn't answer the door to the kids we let the taxi go,
it was pishing down with rain, they had to be back at 7.00pm. We stood well
back from the house as my ex is crazy and the kids were banging on the door
and my son started shouting at the top of his voice to let him in as he
needed the loo. We were soaked through to the skin then at 7.25 we saw her
head peep above the window, she just couldn't contain herself. I said that's
it I'm phoning the police, my dad was saying no but I had enough. So I
called the police, took them until 7.58 to arrive, when they did I showed
them the court order (yeh I carried it ) to return the kids at 7.00pm and
told them she was in their looking out at us four soaked in the rain. When
the cop returned from the back door, she wouldn't open the front door he
said she asked him where her kids were as they should be here by now but he
nodded as much as I know what your up against mate and the kids kissed us
good by and went in soaked through to the skin.
My hatred will never see past that day, I think you'll understand her little
joke to keep us in the rain for an hour but my kids endured this awful hour
with us and they remember too.
Yes, I know how you feel. One thing that adds insult is the fact that
you are never allowed to express your anger at your ex's behaviour.
My ex did some really awfull spitefull things for which I will never be
able to forgive her. But any mention of these events cause my solicitor
to slap my wrist, the courts don't take lightly to fathers expressing
anger, It drives you mad, *mum* does something terrible to the kids and
*dad* is seen as being the bad parent because he feels angry about
whatever *mum did*.

--

BTW You top posted :-(

RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of
these
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.
I think that is one of the biggest problems that we face, enforcement of
the orders.
We all know that the scumcourts and police filth treat men and women
differently in these cases, but does anyone really know *why*.
For example on one occaision I went to collect my daughter from her mums
and she refused to answer the door and let her come with me. I called
the police and explained the situation (our daughter lived with me at
the time and was only supposed to be visiting her mum who was suffering
mental health problems and had been making suicide attempts) but despite
this they still refused to recover her from the house for me and even
threatened *me* with arrest if I did not leave !!
Can you imagine them acting that way if *I* refused to allow her to
return home with her mum ! *I* would probably be arrested for child
abduction or something.
when I look back now I still find it absolutely gobsmackingly
unbeleivable, *and* I wish that I hadn't backed down and left, I have
since found out that my ex's mental health condition had been even worse
than I knew. Given the circumstances I had every right to collect my
daughter and I should have made it so or died trying, if the police had
insisted on enforcing *against* the order and arresting me then I would
only have been defending my childs interest, as a parent nothing should
be more natural than defending your childs interests, even if it
requires putting your own life in jeapordy.
I feel ashamed of myself for backing down that night, I have never
really gotten over it.
Post by NACSA CHAIR
As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do
very
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your
access
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
I doubt I will, possibly this time round I will have the courage of my
convictions and stand my ground, but it is more likely that I will
continue to hold the same principles that I do now only act
hypocritically and back down as before.
Thats part of the problem you see, we men always put our children first,
even if it goes against our most dearly held principles and beliefs.
RedRazor.
--
BTW, You top posted.
Fletcher
2006-01-25 01:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Yeh I gave up on lawyers a long time back, all the jokes are not so funny
when you find out they are true and where do judges come from? Yeh they
choose them from the stock pile of lawyers and they tell you it's a just
system, my ass.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
Yes I can identify with this, I went to return my kids, they were then about
8 and 6 had a court order with fixed times, took my dad as a witness, we got
a taxi and when she didn't answer the door to the kids we let the taxi go,
it was pishing down with rain, they had to be back at 7.00pm. We stood well
back from the house as my ex is crazy and the kids were banging on the door
and my son started shouting at the top of his voice to let him in as he
needed the loo. We were soaked through to the skin then at 7.25 we saw her
head peep above the window, she just couldn't contain herself. I said that's
it I'm phoning the police, my dad was saying no but I had enough. So I
called the police, took them until 7.58 to arrive, when they did I showed
them the court order (yeh I carried it ) to return the kids at 7.00pm and
told them she was in their looking out at us four soaked in the rain. When
the cop returned from the back door, she wouldn't open the front door he
said she asked him where her kids were as they should be here by now but he
nodded as much as I know what your up against mate and the kids kissed us
good by and went in soaked through to the skin.
My hatred will never see past that day, I think you'll understand her little
joke to keep us in the rain for an hour but my kids endured this awful hour
with us and they remember too.
Yes, I know how you feel. One thing that adds insult is the fact that
you are never allowed to express your anger at your ex's behaviour.
My ex did some really awfull spitefull things for which I will never be
able to forgive her. But any mention of these events cause my solicitor
to slap my wrist, the courts don't take lightly to fathers expressing
anger, It drives you mad, *mum* does something terrible to the kids and
*dad* is seen as being the bad parent because he feels angry about
whatever *mum did*.
--
BTW You top posted :-(
RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of
these
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.
I think that is one of the biggest problems that we face, enforcement of
the orders.
We all know that the scumcourts and police filth treat men and women
differently in these cases, but does anyone really know *why*.
For example on one occaision I went to collect my daughter from her mums
and she refused to answer the door and let her come with me. I called
the police and explained the situation (our daughter lived with me at
the time and was only supposed to be visiting her mum who was suffering
mental health problems and had been making suicide attempts) but despite
this they still refused to recover her from the house for me and even
threatened *me* with arrest if I did not leave !!
Can you imagine them acting that way if *I* refused to allow her to
return home with her mum ! *I* would probably be arrested for child
abduction or something.
when I look back now I still find it absolutely gobsmackingly
unbeleivable, *and* I wish that I hadn't backed down and left, I have
since found out that my ex's mental health condition had been even worse
than I knew. Given the circumstances I had every right to collect my
daughter and I should have made it so or died trying, if the police had
insisted on enforcing *against* the order and arresting me then I would
only have been defending my childs interest, as a parent nothing should
be more natural than defending your childs interests, even if it
requires putting your own life in jeapordy.
I feel ashamed of myself for backing down that night, I have never
really gotten over it.
Post by NACSA CHAIR
As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do
very
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your
access
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
I doubt I will, possibly this time round I will have the courage of my
convictions and stand my ground, but it is more likely that I will
continue to hold the same principles that I do now only act
hypocritically and back down as before.
Thats part of the problem you see, we men always put our children first,
even if it goes against our most dearly held principles and beliefs.
RedRazor.
--
BTW, You top posted.
Martin Davies
2006-01-25 09:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Crown court judges come from lawyers usually.
Magistrates court can come from the public.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/law/becomingamagistrate.shtml

Anyone fancy being one?
If only lawyers ever apply, then judges will only be from them.

Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Yeh I gave up on lawyers a long time back, all the jokes are not so
funny when you find out they are true and where do judges come from?
Yeh they choose them from the stock pile of lawyers and they tell you
it's a just system, my ass.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
Yes I can identify with this, I went to return my kids, they were
then about 8 and 6 had a court order with fixed times, took my dad
as a witness, we got a taxi and when she didn't answer the door to
the kids we let the taxi go, it was pishing down with rain, they
had to be back at 7.00pm. We stood well back from the house as my
ex is crazy and the kids were banging on the door and my son
started shouting at the top of his voice to let him in as he needed
the loo. We were soaked through to the skin then at 7.25 we saw her
head peep above the window, she just couldn't contain herself. I
said that's it I'm phoning the police, my dad was saying no but I
had enough. So I called the police, took them until 7.58 to arrive,
when they did I showed them the court order (yeh I carried it ) to
return the kids at 7.00pm and told them she was in their looking
out at us four soaked in the rain. When the cop returned from the
back door, she wouldn't open the front door he said she asked him
where her kids were as they should be here by now but he nodded as
much as I know what your up against mate and the kids kissed us
good by and went in soaked through to the skin.
My hatred will never see past that day, I think you'll understand
her little joke to keep us in the rain for an hour but my kids
endured this awful hour with us and they remember too.
Yes, I know how you feel. One thing that adds insult is the fact that
you are never allowed to express your anger at your ex's behaviour.
My ex did some really awfull spitefull things for which I will never
be able to forgive her. But any mention of these events cause my
solicitor to slap my wrist, the courts don't take lightly to fathers
expressing anger, It drives you mad, *mum* does something terrible
to the kids and *dad* is seen as being the bad parent because he
feels angry about whatever *mum did*.
--
BTW You top posted :-(
RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of
these
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.
I think that is one of the biggest problems that we face,
enforcement of the orders.
We all know that the scumcourts and police filth treat men and
women differently in these cases, but does anyone really know
*why*.
For example on one occaision I went to collect my daughter from
her mums and she refused to answer the door and let her come with
me. I called the police and explained the situation (our daughter
lived with me at the time and was only supposed to be visiting her
mum who was suffering mental health problems and had been making
suicide attempts) but despite this they still refused to recover
her from the house for me and even threatened *me* with arrest if
I did not leave !!
Can you imagine them acting that way if *I* refused to allow her to
return home with her mum ! *I* would probably be arrested for child
abduction or something.
when I look back now I still find it absolutely gobsmackingly
unbeleivable, *and* I wish that I hadn't backed down and left, I
have since found out that my ex's mental health condition had been
even worse than I knew. Given the circumstances I had every right
to collect my daughter and I should have made it so or died
trying, if the police had insisted on enforcing *against* the
order and arresting me then I would only have been defending my
childs interest, as a parent nothing should be more natural than
defending your childs interests, even if it requires putting your
own life in jeapordy.
I feel ashamed of myself for backing down that night, I have never
really gotten over it.
Post by NACSA CHAIR
As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do
very
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your
access
Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
I doubt I will, possibly this time round I will have the courage
of my convictions and stand my ground, but it is more likely that
I will continue to hold the same principles that I do now only act
hypocritically and back down as before.
Thats part of the problem you see, we men always put our children
first, even if it goes against our most dearly held principles and
beliefs.
RedRazor.
--
BTW, You top posted.
--
http://www.cashisallyouneed.co.uk/
ukdeejay
2006-01-25 14:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Unfortunately women do take the law into their own hands in dealing
with who should or should not have access to their children, take my ex
-

She has denied me access over the last ten years.
Went away on holiday with the children when she knew I was on my way to
visit, (a 400 mile round trip.)
Changed the children's names without my permission.
Sent me a solicitors letter claiming that it was upsetting for the
children if I visited.
Sent back birthday cards and money?? I had sent for the children's
birthdays.
Claimed in the same letter that she did'nt want me to see the kids
again.
Threatened me also in the letter that she would call the authorities
(police) if I turned up.
Told the children that I had died in an accident to prevent them from
searching for me.

She would have allowed me to spend thousands on solicitors fees and
still not complied with any court order, (if such an order would ever
be issued) the courts at the time were always under the impression that
in the best interest of the children, the mother should have custody.
She's scheming, manipulative, cheating, lying, adulteress, and still
has the kids.
I have never done anything wrong yet I am the one who is made to suffer
and pay.
Fletcher
2006-01-25 18:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Well fight the system, become slf employed, refuse to pay, make an issue out
of it.

They'll hammer us until enough of us react and take a stand against this
oppression.
Post by ukdeejay
Unfortunately women do take the law into their own hands in dealing
with who should or should not have access to their children, take my ex
-
She has denied me access over the last ten years.
Went away on holiday with the children when she knew I was on my way to
visit, (a 400 mile round trip.)
Changed the children's names without my permission.
Sent me a solicitors letter claiming that it was upsetting for the
children if I visited.
Sent back birthday cards and money?? I had sent for the children's
birthdays.
Claimed in the same letter that she did'nt want me to see the kids
again.
Threatened me also in the letter that she would call the authorities
(police) if I turned up.
Told the children that I had died in an accident to prevent them from
searching for me.
She would have allowed me to spend thousands on solicitors fees and
still not complied with any court order, (if such an order would ever
be issued) the courts at the time were always under the impression that
in the best interest of the children, the mother should have custody.
She's scheming, manipulative, cheating, lying, adulteress, and still
has the kids.
I have never done anything wrong yet I am the one who is made to suffer
and pay.
RedRazor
2006-01-25 21:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fletcher
Well fight the system, become slf employed, refuse to pay, make an issue out
of it.
They'll hammer us until enough of us react and take a stand against this
oppression.
Well said. Its about time us dads started to stand up for ourselfs and
demand equal treatment.

RedRazor


--

You top posted again.
Post by Fletcher
Post by ukdeejay
Unfortunately women do take the law into their own hands in dealing
with who should or should not have access to their children, take my ex
-
She has denied me access over the last ten years.
Went away on holiday with the children when she knew I was on my way to
visit, (a 400 mile round trip.)
Changed the children's names without my permission.
Sent me a solicitors letter claiming that it was upsetting for the
children if I visited.
Sent back birthday cards and money?? I had sent for the children's
birthdays.
Claimed in the same letter that she did'nt want me to see the kids
again.
Threatened me also in the letter that she would call the authorities
(police) if I turned up.
Told the children that I had died in an accident to prevent them from
searching for me.
She would have allowed me to spend thousands on solicitors fees and
still not complied with any court order, (if such an order would ever
be issued) the courts at the time were always under the impression that
in the best interest of the children, the mother should have custody.
She's scheming, manipulative, cheating, lying, adulteress, and still
has the kids.
I have never done anything wrong yet I am the one who is made to suffer
and pay.
Fletcher
2006-01-26 13:37:12 UTC
Permalink
I almost always top post, its ideal for active posters in a thread, bottom
posting suits people who might want to read the thread later and would like
it all neat and logical but probably weren't part of that thread anyway. Not
high in my concerns.
Post by RedRazor
Post by Fletcher
Well fight the system, become slf employed, refuse to pay, make an issue out
of it.
They'll hammer us until enough of us react and take a stand against this
oppression.
Well said. Its about time us dads started to stand up for ourselfs and
demand equal treatment.
RedRazor
--
You top posted again.
Post by Fletcher
Post by ukdeejay
Unfortunately women do take the law into their own hands in dealing
with who should or should not have access to their children, take my ex
-
She has denied me access over the last ten years.
Went away on holiday with the children when she knew I was on my way to
visit, (a 400 mile round trip.)
Changed the children's names without my permission.
Sent me a solicitors letter claiming that it was upsetting for the
children if I visited.
Sent back birthday cards and money?? I had sent for the children's
birthdays.
Claimed in the same letter that she did'nt want me to see the kids
again.
Threatened me also in the letter that she would call the authorities
(police) if I turned up.
Told the children that I had died in an accident to prevent them from
searching for me.
She would have allowed me to spend thousands on solicitors fees and
still not complied with any court order, (if such an order would ever
be issued) the courts at the time were always under the impression that
in the best interest of the children, the mother should have custody.
She's scheming, manipulative, cheating, lying, adulteress, and still
has the kids.
I have never done anything wrong yet I am the one who is made to suffer
and pay.
Yvan Hall
2009-11-05 20:09:33 UTC
Permalink
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Post by RedRazor
Post by NACSA CHAIR
So you're one of the lucky ones whose ex obeys the order...a lot of these
people have ex's that dont give a damn about the orders.
I think that is one of the biggest problems that we face, enforcement of
the orders.
We all know that the scumcourts and police filth treat men and women
differently in these cases, but does anyone really know *why*.
For example on one occaision I went to collect my daughter from her mums
and she refused to answer the door and let her come with me. I called the
police and explained the situation (our daughter lived with me at the time
and was only supposed to be visiting her mum who was suffering mental
health problems and had been making suicide attempts) but despite this
they still refused to recover her from the house for me and even
threatened *me* with arrest if I did not leave !!
Can you imagine them acting that way if *I* refused to allow her to return
home with her mum ! *I* would probably be arrested for child abduction or
something.
when I look back now I still find it absolutely gobsmackingly
unbeleivable, *and* I wish that I hadn't backed down and left, I have
since found out that my ex's mental health condition had been even worse
than I knew. Given the circumstances I had every right to collect my
daughter and I should have made it so or died trying, if the police had
insisted on enforcing *against* the order and arresting me then I would
only have been defending my childs interest, as a parent nothing should be
more natural than defending your childs interests, even if it requires
putting your own life in jeapordy.
I feel ashamed of myself for backing down that night, I have never really
gotten over it.
Post by NACSA CHAIR
As your ex gets more confident and realises that you actually can do very
little to stop her games and thus does start messing around with your
access ...you may then have a change of opinion to your original post!
I doubt I will, possibly this time round I will have the courage of my
convictions and stand my ground, but it is more likely that I will
continue to hold the same principles that I do now only act hypocritically
and back down as before.
Thats part of the problem you see, we men always put our children first,
even if it goes against our most dearly held principles and beliefs.
RedRazor.
--
BTW, You top posted.
Smudge Smith
2006-01-18 22:25:09 UTC
Permalink
Unfortunately I am not in a position to reciprocate any of my ex's actions
(or non actions)due to the fact that she has never made any attempt to bring
our son from Northern Ireland to Northants to visit me. Nor will she allow
him to travel with me...she always has "other plans" when it is convenient
for me to make such arrangements. My son has only met his grandparents,
aunts & uncles here once and that was because she allowed our son to travel
with me by plane this time last year. I inccured the cost of flying out to
collect him. Overnight stay, taxi to his home from airport. Taxi to airport,
Flight toB'Ham...weekend with son. Flight from Bham,drop son off at airport.
Mother was late meeting us at airport so had to stay in airport with son.
Missed outgoing flight. Had to pay for next flight out. Turned out to be
quite an expensive weekend. Since then, according to his mother, he has been
"traumatised" by the experience of flying and so will not let him fly again.
Last time I spoke to him...a week ago I asked him about the aeroplane and he
said he was frightened of it crashing and him not seeing his Mommy again.
WTF does a kid just turned four years old get that from? Certainly not from
me
How do I counter that? Last year I spent another £800 trying to get her
served with a Court summons to appear for a Parental responsibility
agreement which she refused to sign)..got to the point where I couldn't
afford to throw good money after bad and would be better saving it to see my
son based on the courts reluctance to enforce judgemts on single mothers.

As it is now, the CSA have stated to me that based on my intention to travel
to NI once a month to spend a weekend with my son at a cost of approx £500
per time, then my ex has to agree to take a reduction in what I pay her
based on what I have stated the costs to be.. (They are giving her the
option), not me. They are not interested whether I afford to see my son ever
again..just as long as his Mother gets enough to clear her credit cards and
pay for her new kitchen and 4 cars that she has had in as many years.
Interesting to note that she has not contacted the CSA to discuss this
matter. She did contact me however and told me to tell the CSA that if they
wanted to speak to her then the should contact her directly.
1. I'm not her messenger
2. Once again this proves her control freak attitude that she thinks that I
should supplicate to her demands. ( I let her know in no uncertain terms
that it is up to her to contact the CSA...but she seems happy enought to
take the money and deprive my son of his Dad)

(Strangely enough she has another child from a previous relationship whom
she thinks is the product of some immaculate conception. The child has no
notion that it has a father and the mother has never and will never make any
pursuant action to claim child support from that childs Father).

So, if you can think of any way that I can "teach her a lesson" then please
share.
Post by RedRazor
Just wondering, but have you ever done that to her ?
I'm not recommending getting into a tit-for-tac, however I have started to
find with my ex that *not* supplicating and taking her shit but teaching
her a lesson occaisionally instead yeilds better results. For instance I
had a situation recently where she was short on money and started
demanding things from me each time I collected our daughter, usually items
of clothing, new shoes etc. She even threatened to not let our daughter
leave with me if I did not comply (which is really silly of her cuz I have
a court order ), anyway I got fed up off this when we started running low
on clothing at home, so I simply turned the tables, I told her that if the
items of clothing were not returned then she would have to collect her
from our house instead of me driving to her house (of course she should do
this anyway but she dosn't drive and public transport is shite). Well that
seems to have done the trick because although the journey only takes me
about half an hour by car it would take her over 3 hours by bus(es).
Basically what I am saying is that the more we(dads) back down the more
shit we are expected to take, I see a lot of men backing down and taking
heaploads of shite and that just makes it harder for the rest of us.
I guess its a bit like when there is a disagreement at work and because
80% of the workforce are cowards that back down easily to the management
bully tactics the 20% that are preparred to stand up for their rights and
everyone elses are easliy victimised and beaten, (i've seen this happen a
couple of times)
And one last point, I am sick and tired of hearing dads using 'childs best
interest' as an excuse for constant appeasement and innaction.
If you are a good dad then it is in your childs interest that you spend
time nuturing them. If that upsets their mother then that is her problem,
fuck her. And if the state don't like it then fuck them too, they are all
shit for brain tossers anyway and if it was up to me they would all get
their fucking necks stretched.
RedRazor
Post by RedRazor
I hear it over and over. The father gets messed around by the mother as
you have described above, but instead of doing the manly thing and taking
control of the situation, he goes off whining to the courts who promptly
take his kids off him.
Why, why, why.
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