Discussion:
Deferred debt
(too old to reply)
Hounded Dog
2003-10-06 13:51:45 UTC
Permalink
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA expect
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt scheme
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I don't pay
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford another
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out of the
deferred debt scheme? What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
in the deferred debt scheme. Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
dounble quick time?

TIA
Fletcher
2003-10-06 14:34:41 UTC
Permalink
Top whack is 40% of net - sore

Consider self employment, unemployment, or imigration unless your in a high
income bracket.

They mean if you pay what they say they will drop the deferd amount but if
you screw up on payments you pay the defered amount back.

opt out just means they hit you for it all with a DOE - MAX 40% (old system)
I believe there is an element of further discrimination here between max for
the old compared with max for the new system which I think is less.

If you can avoid the DOE you let them sing for the arrears. Depends whether
you need to work as an employee, if you do there is nothing you can do about
it. Guys have to sell houses and flats, cars, no holidays in short work for
nothing, no point in striving for promotion or pay rises either as they want
40% of that too.

They eat the heart out of the working man, take away any sense of worth and
encourage back door jobs and black market activities which many have to do
just to live.
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA expect
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt scheme
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I don't pay
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford another
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out of the
deferred debt scheme? What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
in the deferred debt scheme. Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
dounble quick time?
TIA
Martin Davies
2003-10-06 14:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA expect
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt scheme
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I don't pay
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford another
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out of the
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months worth that
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.

That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll have some
idea of the difference.


What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not more than
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid it,
negotiate the arrears repayment part.



Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit, but ran
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no longer having
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for repayment -
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is cleared by
a certain date (2006? 2005?).

Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Nacsa Chair
2003-10-06 19:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it could cost
you!!

Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your arrears
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay. However,
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if you default
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on had £16k
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable for the
whole amount!!

That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is outstanding???

Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt is
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that will clear
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have been
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if you could
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240 3343
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied and
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA expect
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt scheme
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I don't pay
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out of
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months worth that
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll have some
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not more than
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid it,
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit, but ran
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no longer having
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for repayment -
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is cleared by
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Martin Davies
2003-10-06 21:25:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it could cost
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your arrears
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay. However,
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if you default
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on had £16k
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable for the
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.

Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.

Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick - miss a payment,
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a period of
time).


His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been better to beg,
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???

Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears to pay -
which is 26 weeks.


Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt is
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that will clear
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have been
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if you could
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240 3343
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied and
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I don't
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out of
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months worth that
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll have some
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not more
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid it,
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit, but ran
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no longer
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for repayment -
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Nacsa Chair
2003-10-06 21:52:33 UTC
Permalink
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at all...so
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be argued because
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.

That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury their
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240 3343
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied and
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it could
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your arrears
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay. However,
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if you
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on had £16k
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable for the
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick - miss a payment,
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a period of
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been better to beg,
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears to pay -
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt is
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that will clear
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have been
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if you could
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I don't
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months worth
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll have some
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not more
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid it,
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit, but
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no longer
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Fletcher
2003-10-06 22:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Yeh but CSA arn't going to see a penny of the 16k are they? or the ever
increasing arrears. The guy like many other just aint going to pay period.
OK so jail him at 800 a week of tax payers money for max 42 days and he
still aint going to pay. What then Hang him?
Post by Nacsa Chair
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at all...so
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be argued because
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.
That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury their
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240 3343
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied and
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it could
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your arrears
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay.
However,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if you
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on had
£16k
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable for
the
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick - miss a
payment,
Post by Nacsa Chair
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a period of
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been better to beg,
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears to
pay -
Post by Nacsa Chair
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt is
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that will
clear
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have been
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if you
could
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at CSA
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred debt
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have already
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I
don't
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot afford
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff their
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt out
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months worth
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll have
some
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not more
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid it,
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit, but
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no longer
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Martin Davies
2003-10-06 23:00:13 UTC
Permalink
They would only jail if they don't get an arrears repayment agreement.

If he's employed, they can DEO.

If they have to imprison him in order to get him to agree a repayment plan,
then thats what they'll do.
Whats the alternitive? Bearing in mind that by that time the debt would have
existed for years.

Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but CSA arn't going to see a penny of the 16k are they? or the ever
increasing arrears. The guy like many other just aint going to pay period.
OK so jail him at 800 a week of tax payers money for max 42 days and he
still aint going to pay. What then Hang him?
Post by Nacsa Chair
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at all...so
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be argued
because
Post by Nacsa Chair
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.
That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury their
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it could
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your arrears
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay.
However,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if you
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on had
£16k
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable for
the
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick - miss a
payment,
Post by Nacsa Chair
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a period of
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been better to
beg,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears to
pay -
Post by Nacsa Chair
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt is
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that will
clear
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have been
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if you
could
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information
supplied
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at
CSA
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred de
bt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have
already
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I
don't
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot
afford
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff
their
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt
out
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months
worth
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll have
some
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not
more
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid
it,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit,
but
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no
longer
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Fletcher
2003-10-06 23:12:19 UTC
Permalink
Yeh but he's never going to agree a payment plan and he knows they are
jailing him for poverty but onces hes done his time what else can they do?
Nothing except go and try and jail him again and that isn't going to go on
for ever is it?

Some guys have very legitimate reasons, and the fact they offer the defered
debt senario in the first place shows they are primarily to blame for the
problem in the first place, if he cannot pay through poverty and they insist
on jailing him THEY ARE BARBARIANS and European human right injustice should
start to kick in which makes it all highly unlikly he go to jail again for
the same debt game over.
Post by Martin Davies
They would only jail if they don't get an arrears repayment agreement.
If he's employed, they can DEO.
If they have to imprison him in order to get him to agree a repayment plan,
then thats what they'll do.
Whats the alternitive? Bearing in mind that by that time the debt would have
existed for years.
Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but CSA arn't going to see a penny of the 16k are they? or the ever
increasing arrears. The guy like many other just aint going to pay period.
OK so jail him at 800 a week of tax payers money for max 42 days and he
still aint going to pay. What then Hang him?
Post by Nacsa Chair
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at
all...so
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be argued
because
Post by Nacsa Chair
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.
That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury their
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information supplied
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it
could
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your
arrears
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay.
However,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if you
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on
had
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
£16k
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable
for
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
the
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick - miss a
payment,
Post by Nacsa Chair
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a period of
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been better to
beg,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears to
pay -
Post by Nacsa Chair
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt
is
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that will
clear
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have
been
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if you
could
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870
240
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information
supplied
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers' at
CSA
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the deferred de
bt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have
already
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that if I
don't
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot
afford
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff
their
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I opt
out
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months
worth
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll
have
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
some
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is not
more
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot avoid
it,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time limit.
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment limit,
but
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no
longer
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt is
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Martin Davies
2003-10-07 08:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but he's never going to agree a payment plan
Perhaps suprisingly, the vast majority who get that far will suddenly agree
a repayment plan.
Even if its just a fiver a week.

And its only arrears repayment that affects enforcement.



and he knows they are
Post by Fletcher
jailing him for poverty but onces hes done his time what else can they do?
They don't go for the full liability order, so after jail they still chase
the arrears, and can go for another liability order on a different period of
arrears.
In the course of up to 19 years child support, they can keep sending someone
to prison every year or 2.
Yet the way to stop going to prison is to agree a repayment plan and just
stick to it.

Exactly the same as council tax. Which can also jail people.
Post by Fletcher
Nothing except go and try and jail him again and that isn't going to go on
for ever is it?
No. They cannot jail him for exactly those arrears again - so they go for a
different period of arrears (which can include the origional arrears).

Mind you. you'd have to be pretty dim to keep going to jail every year or 2
when a simple arrears agreement of say £5 a week at 0% interest can save
you.
Though if someone is principled enough to keep going, I'll admire their
principles if not their intelligence.
Post by Fletcher
Some guys have very legitimate reasons, and the fact they offer the defered
debt senario in the first place shows they are primarily to blame for the
problem in the first place,
Not exactly.
Back in 1999, when deferred debt was around origionally, about 30% of new
claims took 6 months or longer, with about 8% of new claims taking 12 months
or more.
Mainly due to small backlogs and the sheer amount of info needed.

Where at least 3 months delay was due to the CSA not being quick enough
(which with any backlog, people would qualify for), people could ask fro
deferred debt.
It might only defer a few weeks arrears - but every little counts.
And the PWC doesnt lose out, as any deferred arrears written off (as they
all are if still deferred a while later) must still be paid by the CSA to
the PWC.
So in effect, the taxpayer foots the bill for deferred arrears.

Note - this is only a minority of claims we are talking about here - the
quickest assessments were almost 2 months if the NRP supplied everything
including all verification on day 1.




if he cannot pay through poverty and they insist
Post by Fletcher
on jailing him THEY ARE BARBARIANS
But if he cannot pay, what action should they take?
Just ignore the debt? Apply for bankruptcy? Whip him/her?
The vast majority of the time, at least part of the arrears (often all of
them) would be owed to the PWC. So it isn't even taxpayers money the
government are playing with.



and European human right injustice should
Post by Fletcher
start to kick in which makes it all highly unlikly he go to jail again for
the same debt game over.
But its not the same debt, its a different amount covering a different
overall period.
And what IU've seen of the HR act so far, seems like criminals are more
likely to succeed with it than more honest citizens.
So if you get shot in the leg while robbing a house, just apply under the HR
act for damages and loss of earnings, even though never worked a paid job.
Or if your family member gets shot for terrorism, just apply under HR act
and get compensation.


Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
They would only jail if they don't get an arrears repayment agreement.
If he's employed, they can DEO.
If they have to imprison him in order to get him to agree a repayment
plan,
Post by Martin Davies
then thats what they'll do.
Whats the alternitive? Bearing in mind that by that time the debt would
have
Post by Martin Davies
existed for years.
Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but CSA arn't going to see a penny of the 16k are they? or the ever
increasing arrears. The guy like many other just aint going to pay
period.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
OK so jail him at 800 a week of tax payers money for max 42 days and he
still aint going to pay. What then Hang him?
Post by Nacsa Chair
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at
all...so
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be argued
because
Post by Nacsa Chair
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.
That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury
their
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870 240
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information
supplied
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt arrangements..it
could
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your
arrears
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay.
However,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if
you
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked on
had
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
£16k
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now liable
for
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
the
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick - miss a
payment,
Post by Nacsa Chair
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a
period
Post by Fletcher
of
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been better to
beg,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears
to
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay -
Post by Nacsa Chair
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the debt
is
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that
will
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
clear
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have
been
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if
you
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
could
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870
240
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information
supplied
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers'
at
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
CSA
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the
deferred
Post by Fletcher
de
Post by Martin Davies
bt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have
already
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that
if
Post by Fletcher
I
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
don't
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot
afford
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to stuff
their
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I
opt
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
out
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6 months
worth
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll
have
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
some
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is
not
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
more
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot
avoid
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
it,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time
limit.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment
limit,
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
but
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no
longer
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt
is
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Fletcher
2003-10-07 09:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Yeh, but some won't and that's un undisputable fact!

Maybe if more guys did choose this long hard route to peace, and they do
ultimatly get peace, perharps the govenment and the CSA would reconsider
what a total mess this shitty system is?

So maybe we should see the jails overflow with CSA victims.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but he's never going to agree a payment plan
Perhaps suprisingly, the vast majority who get that far will suddenly agree
a repayment plan.
Even if its just a fiver a week.
And its only arrears repayment that affects enforcement.
and he knows they are
Post by Fletcher
jailing him for poverty but onces hes done his time what else can they do?
They don't go for the full liability order, so after jail they still chase
the arrears, and can go for another liability order on a different period of
arrears.
In the course of up to 19 years child support, they can keep sending someone
to prison every year or 2.
Yet the way to stop going to prison is to agree a repayment plan and just
stick to it.
Exactly the same as council tax. Which can also jail people.
Post by Fletcher
Nothing except go and try and jail him again and that isn't going to go on
for ever is it?
No. They cannot jail him for exactly those arrears again - so they go for a
different period of arrears (which can include the origional arrears).
Mind you. you'd have to be pretty dim to keep going to jail every year or 2
when a simple arrears agreement of say £5 a week at 0% interest can save
you.
Though if someone is principled enough to keep going, I'll admire their
principles if not their intelligence.
Post by Fletcher
Some guys have very legitimate reasons, and the fact they offer the
defered
Post by Fletcher
debt senario in the first place shows they are primarily to blame for the
problem in the first place,
Not exactly.
Back in 1999, when deferred debt was around origionally, about 30% of new
claims took 6 months or longer, with about 8% of new claims taking 12 months
or more.
Mainly due to small backlogs and the sheer amount of info needed.
Where at least 3 months delay was due to the CSA not being quick enough
(which with any backlog, people would qualify for), people could ask fro
deferred debt.
It might only defer a few weeks arrears - but every little counts.
And the PWC doesnt lose out, as any deferred arrears written off (as they
all are if still deferred a while later) must still be paid by the CSA to
the PWC.
So in effect, the taxpayer foots the bill for deferred arrears.
Note - this is only a minority of claims we are talking about here - the
quickest assessments were almost 2 months if the NRP supplied everything
including all verification on day 1.
if he cannot pay through poverty and they insist
Post by Fletcher
on jailing him THEY ARE BARBARIANS
But if he cannot pay, what action should they take?
Just ignore the debt? Apply for bankruptcy? Whip him/her?
The vast majority of the time, at least part of the arrears (often all of
them) would be owed to the PWC. So it isn't even taxpayers money the
government are playing with.
and European human right injustice should
Post by Fletcher
start to kick in which makes it all highly unlikly he go to jail again for
the same debt game over.
But its not the same debt, its a different amount covering a different
overall period.
And what IU've seen of the HR act so far, seems like criminals are more
likely to succeed with it than more honest citizens.
So if you get shot in the leg while robbing a house, just apply under the HR
act for damages and loss of earnings, even though never worked a paid job.
Or if your family member gets shot for terrorism, just apply under HR act
and get compensation.
Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
They would only jail if they don't get an arrears repayment agreement.
If he's employed, they can DEO.
If they have to imprison him in order to get him to agree a repayment
plan,
Post by Martin Davies
then thats what they'll do.
Whats the alternitive? Bearing in mind that by that time the debt would
have
Post by Martin Davies
existed for years.
Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but CSA arn't going to see a penny of the 16k are they? or the
ever
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
increasing arrears. The guy like many other just aint going to pay
period.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
OK so jail him at 800 a week of tax payers money for max 42 days and
he
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
still aint going to pay. What then Hang him?
Post by Nacsa Chair
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at
all...so
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be argued
because
Post by Nacsa Chair
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.
That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury
their
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870
240
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information
supplied
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt
arrangements..it
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
could
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your
arrears
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually pay.
However,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated if
you
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked
on
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
had
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
£16k
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now
liable
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
for
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
the
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick -
miss
Post by Martin Davies
a
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
payment,
Post by Nacsa Chair
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a
period
Post by Fletcher
of
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been
better
Post by Martin Davies
to
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
beg,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of arrears
to
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay -
Post by Nacsa Chair
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the
debt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
is
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that
will
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
clear
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you have
been
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer if
you
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
could
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk
0870
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
240
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
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3343
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Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
and
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is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell Bankers'
at
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
CSA
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the
deferred
Post by Fletcher
de
Post by Martin Davies
bt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags have
already
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me that
if
Post by Fletcher
I
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
don't
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I cannot
afford
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to
stuff
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
their
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not. Can I
opt
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
out
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6
months
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
worth
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot - you'll
have
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
some
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO is
not
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
more
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot
avoid
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
it,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time
limit.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment
limit,
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
but
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't fair, no
longer
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit for
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the debt
is
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
Martin Davies
2003-10-07 12:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fletcher
Yeh, but some won't and that's un undisputable fact!
Maybe if more guys did choose this long hard route to peace, and they do
ultimatly get peace, perharps the govenment and the CSA would reconsider
what a total mess this shitty system is?
So maybe we should see the jails overflow with CSA victims.
Unfortunately, you'll never see the jails overflow with CSA victims.

Most won't take the risk of losing job, house or whatever to spend time in
jail.
I can't say I can blame them - its a rare person who is willing and able to
go to jail for his or her beliefs (some of the F4J people seem willing,
almost eager even).

If the CSA did 100 commital hearings a week in court, I'd be suprised if
more than 1 person a week went to jail.

Though once word gets around that more people go to jail, it encourages
those who face the prospect to actually do something about it.

Which is pretty much half the reason for having jails - discouraging people
from getting caught, and encouraging people not to go in the first place.

With just under a million CSA cases, only a very few have had either licence
removed or gone to jail.
The vast majority won't ever even go down the liability order route.
Very rare for employed people to get one, and pointless really for an
unemployed person to have one.

Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but he's never going to agree a payment plan
Perhaps suprisingly, the vast majority who get that far will suddenly
agree
Post by Martin Davies
a repayment plan.
Even if its just a fiver a week.
And its only arrears repayment that affects enforcement.
and he knows they are
Post by Fletcher
jailing him for poverty but onces hes done his time what else can they
do?
Post by Martin Davies
They don't go for the full liability order, so after jail they still chase
the arrears, and can go for another liability order on a different
period
Post by Fletcher
of
Post by Martin Davies
arrears.
In the course of up to 19 years child support, they can keep sending
someone
Post by Martin Davies
to prison every year or 2.
Yet the way to stop going to prison is to agree a repayment plan and just
stick to it.
Exactly the same as council tax. Which can also jail people.
Post by Fletcher
Nothing except go and try and jail him again and that isn't going to
go
Post by Fletcher
on
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
for ever is it?
No. They cannot jail him for exactly those arrears again - so they go
for
Post by Fletcher
a
Post by Martin Davies
different period of arrears (which can include the origional arrears).
Mind you. you'd have to be pretty dim to keep going to jail every year
or
Post by Fletcher
2
Post by Martin Davies
when a simple arrears agreement of say £5 a week at 0% interest can save
you.
Though if someone is principled enough to keep going, I'll admire their
principles if not their intelligence.
Post by Fletcher
Some guys have very legitimate reasons, and the fact they offer the
defered
Post by Fletcher
debt senario in the first place shows they are primarily to blame for
the
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
problem in the first place,
Not exactly.
Back in 1999, when deferred debt was around origionally, about 30% of new
claims took 6 months or longer, with about 8% of new claims taking 12
months
Post by Martin Davies
or more.
Mainly due to small backlogs and the sheer amount of info needed.
Where at least 3 months delay was due to the CSA not being quick enough
(which with any backlog, people would qualify for), people could ask fro
deferred debt.
It might only defer a few weeks arrears - but every little counts.
And the PWC doesnt lose out, as any deferred arrears written off (as they
all are if still deferred a while later) must still be paid by the CSA to
the PWC.
So in effect, the taxpayer foots the bill for deferred arrears.
Note - this is only a minority of claims we are talking about here - the
quickest assessments were almost 2 months if the NRP supplied everything
including all verification on day 1.
if he cannot pay through poverty and they insist
Post by Fletcher
on jailing him THEY ARE BARBARIANS
But if he cannot pay, what action should they take?
Just ignore the debt? Apply for bankruptcy? Whip him/her?
The vast majority of the time, at least part of the arrears (often all of
them) would be owed to the PWC. So it isn't even taxpayers money the
government are playing with.
and European human right injustice should
Post by Fletcher
start to kick in which makes it all highly unlikly he go to jail again
for
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
the same debt game over.
But its not the same debt, its a different amount covering a different
overall period.
And what IU've seen of the HR act so far, seems like criminals are more
likely to succeed with it than more honest citizens.
So if you get shot in the leg while robbing a house, just apply under
the
Post by Fletcher
HR
Post by Martin Davies
act for damages and loss of earnings, even though never worked a paid job.
Or if your family member gets shot for terrorism, just apply under HR act
and get compensation.
Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
They would only jail if they don't get an arrears repayment agreement.
If he's employed, they can DEO.
If they have to imprison him in order to get him to agree a repayment
plan,
Post by Martin Davies
then thats what they'll do.
Whats the alternitive? Bearing in mind that by that time the debt
would
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
have
Post by Martin Davies
existed for years.
Martin <><
Post by Fletcher
Yeh but CSA arn't going to see a penny of the 16k are they? or the
ever
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
increasing arrears. The guy like many other just aint going to pay
period.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
OK so jail him at 800 a week of tax payers money for max 42 days and
he
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
still aint going to pay. What then Hang him?
Post by Nacsa Chair
yes - sadly he just refused to accept that he owed any arrears at
all...so
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
he just ignored everything...and there is little that can be
argued
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
because
Post by Nacsa Chair
CSA had applied the law correctly...it was the NRP at fault.
That said - it is confusion that usually makes people want to bury
their
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
heads...and thats the worst thing to do!
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!! www.nacsa.co.uk 0870
240
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon information
supplied
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Be careful with playing around on deferred debt
arrangements..it
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
could
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cost
Post by Nacsa Chair
you!!
Deferred debt basically means that you have an amount of your
arrears
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred...leaving you with just 26 weeks worth to actually
pay.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
However,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the remainder over and above the 26 weeks will be reinstated
if
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
you
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
default
Post by Nacsa Chair
on the arrears payment schedule. A case I have recently worked
on
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
had
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
£16k
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
deferred, with only £1045 to pay....he defaulted and is now
liable
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
for
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
the
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
whole amount!!
Big carrot and stick.
Which is why deferred debt was brought in in the first place.
Big carrot - can save a fortune in arrears - and big stick -
miss
Post by Martin Davies
a
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
payment,
Post by Nacsa Chair
and the deferred amount can go back on (though wiped after a
period
Post by Fletcher
of
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
time).
His default has cost him £16K - perhaps it would have been
better
Post by Martin Davies
to
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
beg,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
borrow or steal rather than default in his case?
Post by Nacsa Chair
That said, £100 per month does seem quite high...how much is
outstanding???
Hmmm...yes - 35 months left to pay - and 6 months worth of
arrears
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
to
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay -
Post by Nacsa Chair
which is 26 weeks.
Martin <><
Post by Nacsa Chair
Part of the criteria to qualify for deferred debt is that the
debt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
is
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared by March 2006. If you can negotiate a smaller pay that
will
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
clear
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
the arrears by this date, there should be no reason why you
have
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
been
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
refused...I would be looking at contacting your case officer
if
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
you
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
could
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
arrange a smaller payment...
NACSA CHAIR--
WHEN CSA GET IT WRONG...NACSA PUT IT RIGHT!!!
www.nacsa.co.uk
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
0870
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
240
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
3343
Post by Nacsa Chair
Disclaimer: the content of this email is based upon
information
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
supplied
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
and
Post by Nacsa Chair
is subject to errors and omissions.
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
I'm about to have a DEO slapped on me. The 'Jodrell
Bankers'
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
at
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
CSA
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
expect
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
me to pay £100 off the arrears every month under the
deferred
Post by Fletcher
de
Post by Martin Davies
bt
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
scheme
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
and in addition to the CS they already want. The slags
have
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
already
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
crucified me financially and have the balls to tell me
that
Post by Martin Davies
if
Post by Fletcher
I
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
don't
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
pay
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
like a good boy they will add back all the arrears. I
cannot
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
afford
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
another
Post by Hounded Dog
£100 a month so I am considering whether to tell them to
stuff
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
their
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme where the sun don't shine or not.
Can
Post by Fletcher
I
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
opt
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
out
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
of
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
the
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme?
Yes, you can opt out.
However, then you are liable for all arrears, not just 6
months
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
worth
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
that
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
deferred debt scheme wants you to pay.
That might only be a small difference, might be a lot -
you'll
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
have
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
some
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
idea of the difference.
What is the most they can take for arrears if I am not
Post by Hounded Dog
in the deferred debt scheme.
There is no maximum amount for arrears, so long as the DEO
is
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
not
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
more
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
than
Post by Hounded Dog
40% of the figure they have for your net income.
Your best bet is always to avoid a DEO - or where you cannot
avoid
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
it,
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
negotiate the arrears repayment part.
Why does deferred debt have to be paid off in
Post by Hounded Dog
dounble quick time?
Because the new deferred debt scheme legislation has a time
limit.
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
The origional deferred debt scheme had no arrears repayment
limit,
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
but
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
ran
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
out a few years ago. People complained that it wasn't
fair,
Post by Fletcher
no
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
longer
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
having
Post by Hounded Dog
dferred debt scheme.
So they brought in a new version, but it has a time limit
for
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
repayment -
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Hounded Dog
basically allowing any amount of repayment so long as the
debt
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
is
Post by Martin Davies
Post by Fletcher
Post by Nacsa Chair
Post by Nacsa Chair
cleared
Post by Nacsa Chair
by
Post by Hounded Dog
a certain date (2006? 2005?).
Martin <><
Post by Hounded Dog
TIA
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