Discussion:
Living Abroad - Advice needed (please)
(too old to reply)
Redundant
2008-07-15 21:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi People

About a year ago I was made redundant in the UK. I signed on for Job Seekers
allowance and subsequently received a nil assessment from the CSA. After 4
months it was becoming obvious that a new job in the UK was not
forthcoming, given my age, so my (new) wife and I decided to take what
remained of the redundancy money and try to start a new life abroad. As a
safety net, we decided to rent our property in the UK (it's in my name) for
twelve months so if it doesn't work out, we can return to the UK.

The CSA have traced me through the letting agency and have now issued an
assessment based on the rental income I am receiving from the property in
the UK. The rental income that they have used is the gross income and
makes no allowance for the percentage I pay the agency for the management,
nor takes into consideration that the rest pays the UK mortgage on the
property.

Obviously(?) they have made no further allowance for any housing costs I'm
currently incurring in my new home, any UK Income Tax for which I may be
liable (I'm hiding nothing from the Inland Revenue - I'm still waiting for
my 2007/2008 assessment - which may or may not include a tax element on the
rental income).

I've checked the CSA website, but, given that my situation is not a common
one, there is no guidance on what the law is for a non-UK resident (I'm
using the Inland Revenue definition here) with assets in the UK. At the
moment neither my wife or I are working.

If anyone can enlighten me on the legal position, and how I should respond
to the CSA's demand, I would be extremely grateful.

Regards
Lee Phillips
2008-07-16 09:51:54 UTC
Permalink
I'm pretty sure that as you have assets in the UK, the CSA are able to
get their paws on you. However.......

The only income that should be included is the profit you make on the
property you're letting. Appeal against the assessment and enclose proof
of your outgoings on it.

Also, as they're treating you as under their jurisdiction, they should
include housing costs for the property you're currently living in. Again
send in proof of this and things should be adjusted.
Post by Redundant
Hi People
About a year ago I was made redundant in the UK. I signed on for Job Seekers
allowance and subsequently received a nil assessment from the CSA. After 4
months it was becoming obvious that a new job in the UK was not
forthcoming, given my age, so my (new) wife and I decided to take what
remained of the redundancy money and try to start a new life abroad. As a
safety net, we decided to rent our property in the UK (it's in my name) for
twelve months so if it doesn't work out, we can return to the UK.
The CSA have traced me through the letting agency and have now issued an
assessment based on the rental income I am receiving from the property in
the UK. The rental income that they have used is the gross income and
makes no allowance for the percentage I pay the agency for the management,
nor takes into consideration that the rest pays the UK mortgage on the
property.
Obviously(?) they have made no further allowance for any housing costs I'm
currently incurring in my new home, any UK Income Tax for which I may be
liable (I'm hiding nothing from the Inland Revenue - I'm still waiting for
my 2007/2008 assessment - which may or may not include a tax element on the
rental income).
I've checked the CSA website, but, given that my situation is not a common
one, there is no guidance on what the law is for a non-UK resident (I'm
using the Inland Revenue definition here) with assets in the UK. At the
moment neither my wife or I are working.
If anyone can enlighten me on the legal position, and how I should respond
to the CSA's demand, I would be extremely grateful.
Regards
Redundant
2008-07-16 20:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Phillips
I'm pretty sure that as you have assets in the UK, the CSA are able to
get their paws on you. However.......
Does anyone know this for sure?

As an aside, until my nil assessment I had been paying them for the last 12
years under, what I assume would've been CS1. The "new" assessment is for
30% of income, rather than 15% for a single child under CS2. Should the new
assessment be under CS2 or can they continue to assess under CS1?
Post by Lee Phillips
The only income that should be included is the profit you make on the
property you're letting. Appeal against the assessment and enclose proof
of your outgoings on it.
Also, as they're treating you as under their jurisdiction, they should
include housing costs for the property you're currently living in. Again
send in proof of this and things should be adjusted.
Interestingly, I have not actually received or completed an "official"
assessment form. All I have had from them is two letters compiled on what
looks like ad ad-hoc basis. The first was concerned with establishing my
address abroad and asking when I left the UK and if I intended to return.
The second was more focused on how I was supporting myself (as if they
didn't know the amount of my redundancy) and asked if I was recieving
rental income from the UK. Given that they had got my address from the
rental agency in the UK, there was no point in denying the fact and I gave
them the gross figure. Next thing I know, is I get the assessment, back
dated to when I left the UK.

Again, advice on how to proceed would be welcome. I don't have long to
respond, because once again, despite having pointed out that postal
deliveries here are less than reliable, they have again ignored the fact
and demanded a response within a month of the date of the letter. It's
taken two weeks for their assessment to get to me and a response is
probably going to take ten days to get back to them!
Post by Lee Phillips
Post by Redundant
Hi People
About a year ago I was made redundant in the UK. I signed on for Job
Seekers allowance and subsequently received a nil assessment from the
CSA. After 4 months it was becoming obvious that a new job in the UK was
not forthcoming, given my age, so my (new) wife and I decided to take
what remained of the redundancy money and try to start a new life abroad.
As a safety net, we decided to rent our property in the UK (it's in my
name) for twelve months so if it doesn't work out, we can return to the
UK.
The CSA have traced me through the letting agency and have now issued an
assessment based on the rental income I am receiving from the property in
the UK. The rental income that they have used is the gross income and
makes no allowance for the percentage I pay the agency for the
management, nor takes into consideration that the rest pays the UK
mortgage on the property.
Obviously(?) they have made no further allowance for any housing costs
I'm currently incurring in my new home, any UK Income Tax for which I may
be liable (I'm hiding nothing from the Inland Revenue - I'm still waiting
for my 2007/2008 assessment - which may or may not include a tax element
on the rental income).
I've checked the CSA website, but, given that my situation is not a
common one, there is no guidance on what the law is for a non-UK resident
(I'm using the Inland Revenue definition here) with assets in the UK. At
the moment neither my wife or I are working.
If anyone can enlighten me on the legal position, and how I should
respond to the CSA's demand, I would be extremely grateful.
Regards
redmelons
2008-07-17 16:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Redundant
Post by Lee Phillips
I'm pretty sure that as you have assets in the UK, the CSA are
able to get their paws on you. However.......
Does anyone know this for sure?
Yes. In fact if the CSA believe that you intend to return to the UK at
a future date they will not close your case. One of the reasons they
use to decide that you do not intend to permanently leave the UK is if
you retain property in the UK. You have obviously given them reason to
believe that you 'intend to maintain links with the UK'.
Post by Redundant
As an aside, until my nil assessment I had been paying them for the
last 12 years under, what I assume would've been CS1. The "new"
assessment is for 30% of income, rather than 15% for a single child
under CS2. Should the newassessment be under CS2 or can they continue
to assess under CS1?
Yes, you stay on CS1 unless they have reason to close the case.
--
I'm using an evaluation license of nemo since 427 days.
You should really try it!
http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo
Fletcher
2008-07-16 11:31:21 UTC
Permalink
If you fail to come to some agreement with them they can put an order on
your property, which essentially stops you selling it without first
discharging any outstanding debt to them, there are ways around this
ofcourse, so anyone in that situation just let us know, anyway as we know
they are greedy bastards motivated by bonuses that may well be related to
the amounts they draw in for the agency so now you can see why you are being
assessed on the total income!

Presumably you will need a set of accounts to basically show that you are to
all intent and purposes a small business, a sole trader. This way you can
offset all your UK expenses including your, tax, NI, flights even
accommodation etc to look after your property. Ultimately CSA should only be
able to assess you on your net profit from this business venture. Register
with the Inland Revenue and ask for self assessment tax forms.

There may be another way to play this but that would be my recommendation,
alternatively sell the property, ask for another assessment having no
income, get your nil assessment back just in case you do decide to come back
to blighty but why, enjoy the sunshine.
Post by Redundant
Hi People
About a year ago I was made redundant in the UK. I signed on for Job Seekers
allowance and subsequently received a nil assessment from the CSA. After 4
months it was becoming obvious that a new job in the UK was not
forthcoming, given my age, so my (new) wife and I decided to take what
remained of the redundancy money and try to start a new life abroad. As a
safety net, we decided to rent our property in the UK (it's in my name) for
twelve months so if it doesn't work out, we can return to the UK.
The CSA have traced me through the letting agency and have now issued an
assessment based on the rental income I am receiving from the property in
the UK. The rental income that they have used is the gross income and
makes no allowance for the percentage I pay the agency for the management,
nor takes into consideration that the rest pays the UK mortgage on the
property.
Obviously(?) they have made no further allowance for any housing costs I'm
currently incurring in my new home, any UK Income Tax for which I may be
liable (I'm hiding nothing from the Inland Revenue - I'm still waiting for
my 2007/2008 assessment - which may or may not include a tax element on the
rental income).
I've checked the CSA website, but, given that my situation is not a common
one, there is no guidance on what the law is for a non-UK resident (I'm
using the Inland Revenue definition here) with assets in the UK. At the
moment neither my wife or I are working.
If anyone can enlighten me on the legal position, and how I should respond
to the CSA's demand, I would be extremely grateful.
Regards
ManBearPig
2008-07-17 08:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fletcher
If you fail to come to some agreement with them they can put an order on
your property, which essentially stops you selling it without first
discharging any outstanding debt to them, there are ways around this
ofcourse, so anyone in that situation just let us know, anyway as we know
they are greedy bastards motivated by bonuses that may well be related to
the amounts they draw in for the agency so now you can see why you are being
assessed on the total income!
Presumably you will need a set of accounts to basically show that you are to
all intent and purposes a small business, a sole trader. This way you can
offset all your UK expenses including your, tax, NI, flights even
accommodation etc to look after your property. Ultimately CSA should only be
able to assess you on your net profit from this business venture. Register
with the Inland Revenue and ask for self assessment tax forms.
So you can have things like rent, travel, utility bills etc as a
legitimate business expense without them locking you up?
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